Wrinkled, folding leaves in half of my soil crop

just found @garrigan62 post from '15!

looks like Aluminum Sulfate is another option.

Also you can do this with the rest of your soil you have ok ?

Will

Organic substances frequently used to reduce soil pH are peat moss, rotted manure and rotted leaf compost. Canadian sphagnum peat moss, with a pH of between 3.0 and 4.5, can be worked effectively into the top 8 to 12 inches of soil or your bags of FFOF

Yoir in good hands with @garrigan62. He’s the soil expert.

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Thanks. Duly noted.

With the alum, can I scratch it into the top layer of my pots? Does depth matter? And should I give it a good soaking with my tap ( pH 7.2) or does that need to be ph’d to a lower number?

Last question, I am seeing a runoff of 7.3 from the pots right now… Once i add the alum, how long should I wait for pH to change, or is it going to be pretty instant?

So I ended up buying some Aluminum Sulfate and tested out scratching a tsp or two into the surface of a 5 gal pot of one of the stunted plants and the result was a little more fast acting and acid then I had expected or wanted. I figure I’d need some practice before I could safely administer this and its probably best mixed in ahead of time when theres not a plant already suffering.

So I got a new pH meter and started running some tests. With my tap @ 7.4, I was able to mix up some FF Grow Big and end up with a gallon of solution at 5.7pH. I fed a few plants about a half gal until runoff and found I could reliably get about in the 6.3-6.8 neighborhood. A couple plants were running off at 6.0, so I flushed them a few gallons through until I was in the same pH range. Luckily, my soil mix has a healthy portion of perlite, so the soil is not waterlogging and they are bouncing back nicely so far. I will know in a few days, I hope, as to whether or not the symptoms I have been seeing will show up in the new growth coming - but they really seem much happier today than I have seen them since the transplant.

As a sort of experiment, 3 of the plants were only fed water that I pH’d with vinegar to 6.5. So far they look happy as well.

I also have epsom salts on the way (though the growbig supplies mg) and I am making some calcium solution with eggshells and vinegar that I can foliar feed with and add into the next watering cycle.

The new pH meter seems to be much better, which is helping me feel a bit more confident in the readings, instead of second guessing the whole way through.

One question - Where can I source DI water for making calibration solution for the pH meter? I think someone mentioned that Aquafina is DI, but I havent been able to confirm that Aquafina is, in fact, deionized.

Any grocery store will have distilled water. It’s like $0.88 a gallon here.

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but specifically deionized water? apparently its necessary to make the calibration and storage solution for this meter. I know you can buy it on amazon or even at walmart but it seems really expensive.

actually - looks like they have it cheap at auto parts store!

A little update at 8 wks. Looking a lot better and bushing out with lst. 7 confirmed females, 2 males, 1 unknown as of yet. The little run isnt showing yet but i suspect male. Still - it came back to life after all this dormant time. the pH really had it in a death hold.

i may cull a couple of the females for the sake of space and effort (a couple of them are less robust anyways) and am considering potting up one more time in june to 10 gal smartpots with a supersoil recipe. really depends on how much time i have to get it together

thanks for all the ph and ppm and soil help, everyone - it really paid off to get dive into it and get my hands dirty.

before/after shots of 8 days growth


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Watered half of them after letting them get very dry, slight limping. 1gal each with solution of rain water, grow big, big bloom, calcium acetate, epsom and baking soda for pH (6.5@ 2900ppm - still not sure about this number and how high or low it should be…I suspect it should be around 1200 and I’ll find out if it’s too high very soon). Runoff of every plant ranged from 6.25-6.45, which I consider to be a victory considering the crazy swings I was seeing when I started this thread. Within 5 mins they’ve all perked back up and are looking great.

Wrinkle Leaf is always a virus. You can even see the ubiquitous streaks for which Cannabis-attacking viruses are named “Hemp Streak Virus”. There are almost 40 viruses that attack Cannabis and all of them crossed over from Tobacco. There is nothing you can do to fix it. You will need to just kill that strain off or it will spread to your other plants, although the rate of spread is very slow.

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Hi guys,

Just letting you know that I have been dealing with this exact problem for many years now. Usually it will be like 1 or 2 plants in the group that do this, it usually begins about a week after they germinate. It starts slowly and its kinda some of the leaves look a bit wonky. And then it gets worse. Sometimes it gets better. In most cases some plants will show some pale streaks across the leaves like they look like water marks.

In the past ive spoke to various horticulturalists who told me turn down the nutrients.

In more severe cases they baby leaves or new growth cone out wrinkly looking or shrivled.

The most severe is when the shrivelled leaves the new growth wrinkly leaves begin to get tiny little holes on them here and there.

The last horticulturalist I spoke to about this and showed him photos told me this was a genetic mutation…

Again I dont agree because its happening regularly and in any strain it doesn’t matter what strain I think the 1st time it was gorilla glue. Next was skywalker og. Then it was alien og. Then sweet critical. Then gelato og. Then uk cheese. And currently it is happening to pineapple express, blackberry moonrocks, chocolate skunk, and blue ghost.

Their all about 2 weeks into the seedling stage, and begining to show the wrinkles on the new growth and also the water mark looking pale streaks across some of the leaves…

This issue has plagued me for years now!!

Literally its popped up every few months for like 10 years.

Ive never been able to find what causes it or how to stop it ive rang countless horticulturalists ive spoke to countless hydro shops ive spoke to Nutrient companies…

Mine is different to yours in that yours is in soil where as my grows have been in Coco…

I have changed nutrients I have used everyone from House and Garden to Canna to Emerald to Green Plant to Aptus Plant tech… etc etc Bio diesel ive used fully nitrate salt nutrients and ive used 100% organic…

I dont use LED’S so its not your lights because I have used HPS and I have used CMH.

Ive tried higher watts ive tried lower watts ive tried having lights at a massive distance and ive tried having lights up close…

My pH is completely different to yours mine is between 5.8 and 6.5 and I let it fluctuate between that rNge to allow for macros.

I cant imagine this could be a virus from tobacco plants thats infected threw the seeds because its every different seeds at the exact same times its seed from Spain, LA, Amsterdam, UK, Oregon, Australia, all over the world…

And if it was why would it only be me this happens to every single run?

Every single batch of seeds will throw this issue.

My entire grow environment is 100% perfection im talking everything!

Mine is a very small Craft Grow with the best of everything no expense spared.

This has been the thorn in my side since as long as I can remember and I will never get an answer no matter where I search its only guesses.

I wish some one could be like oh yeah man thats bla bla bla bla bla bla and be done with it once and for all.

Its cannabis’ greatest mystery!! Literally.

How can one horticulturalist say its to much nutrients, the next say its a genetic mutation, when in fact both of those answers have been ruled out by a superior critical thinking mind.

Ive tried the less is more option…

Ive tried the ph option…

Ive tried light stress heat stress watering techniques to much not enough… ive tried humidity and to be honest humidity was the closest ive came to fixing this issue!!

What i did was i placed all babies into a mini tent, and created a super wet environment… they went better then worse… then I created a super dry environment… they went better then worse…

I reported into larger pots and they grew out their entire lives with these exact same crappy wrinkled leaves to the point where at the flip it almost went away…!! It was gone! And then a few weeks into it and it returned again…

I ended up with full grow huge fan leaves that had tiny little holes in them! By that stage the shops were like something eating them…

What more of an answer could I expect from those Rock Lobsters.

So if anyway truly can fix this issue please reply! Haha. It wouod be greatly appreciated.

Im gunna have another run at it right now. Incase its a potassium deficiency, I’ve checked ph it was 6.0… perfect really so ive increased nutrient to 1.5ml per litre… and ive decided to switch them to a 18/6 schedule instead of the usual 24/0 seedling schedule. And ive increased the air flow up to 100% just to try and get a better wet/dry process. Their in baby sized pots so they should dry out a bit quicker then they are… not dry dry… still damp… but lighter they should get lighter quicker. Anyway see how it goes but yeah ive been battling this issue for along as I can remember… I dont know what it could be… when I research previously the highest number of results have always been potassium deficiency.

Ive decided its a genetic mutation that allt of strains these days suffer from over/inbreeding. Its popping up globally and regularly. If it hasn’t found you yet im sure it will eventually so i know some Cultivars that do not posses this mutation ill just stick to them and steer clear of the rest.