Why such big phenom differences in same seed bag


#1

Continuing the discussion from Auto flower northern lights dwc first real grow:
I’m looking at the awesome nl buds here as I am doing nl autos in soil, doing good but I have huge differences in plants from the same ilgm seed bag. Two plants have leaves the size of dollar bills and are 3ft at flower stage, two others are bud crazy, thin leaves, stopped at 2 ft at flower. I’m in 3 week of flower and you’d swear I got four different strains going on. I was told thar plant phenom are different but I started em all same time. Fed the same, same lights, same soil, and attention. I’m new at this but this is like a quality seed lab thing, even a new grower can see the difference in the genetics, maybe someone got stoney nd mixed the seeds ha, nope, all same seed pack all NL, all ILGM. Hmm grow is going ok but the two look to be 2 weeks ahead of the others now. Confused at a minimum


#2

no 2 plants from seed are the exact same they can express differently and adverse growing conditions can increase effects and expressions


#3

Ive had them all under same conditions and feeding schefule, light schedule. I understand they are not clones, but why such a wide swing in genetics and grow stage from same seed bag?


#4

Don’t get me wrong I’m not sideways about it all, having a blast growing wall to wall, but one is a spindle christmas tree at 3ft with dumbo wings for leafs and sprigs of pistals, one is a 3 ft amazon, with dollar bills for leafs and buds just starting in sll the right places, and plants are bushy fat step sisters with buds all up and under with finger leafs, that show the sati va side for sure. I suppose I was expecting alittle som r thing more uniform when I popped 4 sedds from the same bag, I guess even string beans grow alittle different in the same garden.


#5

It’s normal, I have a similar thing going on at the moment. Pop three seeds, two are short and bushy, one is really stretchy.

When growing photoperiod plants you get to pick your favorite phenotype and propagate it - they call it a pheno hunt


#6

Like they said, phenotypes. It’s like you and your wife having four kids. Two are boys, two are girls. One of each are tall, one short, and the other average. You have two blondes, a brunette, and a red head. One has freckles and brown eyes the other three have blue. But all four share you and your wife’s dna. Make more sense?

Also, as good as you think you are there are always going to be small differences. One scoop of soil out of a bag could have a higher nitrogen content than the next. You’re light could be an inch off center in your tent. Or there are hundreds of other scenarios. Stuff like that can make a difference, and it happens all the time.


#7

Nice analogy @dbrn32. :+1: :smile:


#8

Pheno hunt that’s funny, I can see that no matter how I thought I had it all controled one little difference could change alot. These girls are all NL autos and have been alot of fun to watch grow but now as they progress, it is stark to the difference in the plants at maturity. I was kinda wondering what controls ilgm seed gurus used when slewing seeds and what pheno hunt tactics were employed to produce closer to like plants or doesn’t it matter as they will always be runaways…


#9

You can’t really outbreed phenos to my knowledge. Even the most stable genetics will have some differences. Just like my description above, just because you and your wife are blonde hair and blue eyed doesn’t mean all your kids will be right? You carry recessive genes all the time, so do plants.


#10

Oh, go on, let’s have the Nature vs Nurture debate :joy:


#11

Good words from all thank you! I suppose if I want identical twins I’ll have to get away from autos and start mainlining, topping, lst’ing, cutting and trimming. And find a plant with all the attributes that I like and grow from there.


#12

That stuff won’t really change it either. But you can go to photos and clone them. Then you’re pretty much genetically the same.


#13

Hunt down a Pheno you like, clone it and grow a mother plant, grow yourself a clone army. Never pay for seeds again

OR

Try out all the different and interesting strains that are available


#14

But do you think the seed chooser person should share some of the responsibility? I mean they are there to pluck them from the pod, and place them in the packet. I am growing from seed obviously as they are autos, but I look at the seeds in the mailer and some are plump, light, dsrk, little hard, can’t telle they come from same gene pool. Quality breeders, we all hope. Shouldn’t there be alittle more put into the pool of fun we draw from.


#15

Most develop tolerance and tire of strain over time I am pro cloning I do it pretty much every month but I keep mother plants of numerous strains and pheno sometimes the slowest starter is best finisher


#16

Responsibility? I’m not sure I follow.

A ‘library’ of favorite mothers sounds like a good plan if you aren’t limited in the number of plants you can have (this is one reason why monster cropping is such an appealing idea to me).

If you do go the clone army route don’t forget order 66


#17

breeding and sorting is a very methodical process you expect results to be close to parents but stable genes are just like us hard to be 100% foolproof.Same parents can have 2 kids which are very different likewise seeds behave in same fashion it is actually a bonus if you find a perfect plant but typical results are plants close but not quite the same


#18

“I look at the seeds in the mailer and some are plump, light, dark, little hard”

Yeah I hear you. The seeds I received were somewhat variable. Ideally they should be nice & fat with tiger stripes. That said, I got 4/4 although I did pick the best four from the ten I received. I’m not complaining and our leader seems to stand by his guarantees, if you get duds he replaces them


#19

You’re looking at this all wrong dude. Just because the seeds look the same doesn’t mean it will produce the same kind of plant.

I use to chase a specific strain pretty hard. Like ordered the same seeds four different times. You’d get one pheno that produced a little more but didn’t quite have the frost of a different one. Then a third pheno that produced some really good color but was low yielding. A fourth pheno that had a little bit of all the first three but didn’t have quite the buzz the others did. And then somewhere along the way about 18 or so seeds in you get one that has a good balance of everything else and smells like juicy fruit on top of it. That’s my keeper! Someone else may have stopped at the highest yeilding, or best buzz. Just because I like something doesn’t mean you’ll like the same thing.


#20

Pheno hunting right?