Tobacco Mosaic Virus Problem - Solved

Okay, I just learned what has been going on with my blueberry and strawberry plants and wanted to share and get some info.
Intermittent
Three to nine frond leaves, some wide, like elongated baby palms; yellowing on one side not the other, or a strip of yellow on some of the leaves; leaves here and there growing into elongated, twisted shapes, etc… When it happened I came here frustrated, convinced I was doing something wrong, because everything pointed to the “Tobacco Mosaic.” I removed the four plants from the other room and waited for the rest of the room to get the disease.
They didn’t. Not one of them, especially my widows, which would have made me very sad if it did.:frowning:

Anyway, for the rest of the growing season, the blueberry and strawberry has been a real pain in the ass. Sensitive to everything, and I mean everything! They weren’t happy with the nutrient increase. I had to make a separate solution for it, because they were the only ones reacting to the formula that the other plants were thriving on, and I was convinced it was the cause behind the continuing leaf morphing and discoloration. The buds looked okay, but weren’t as tight as the last grow. Again, the other room had no issues, all was growing well. Now I’m getting suspicious.

I took my last blueberry and strawberry to a friends home, as they were kind enough to let me grow there. The only condition was my using new soil (of course), new pot, tools, everything, which also made sense,given the info on Tobacco Mosaic. I was more than happy to do anything to get a healthy plant.

That was four weeks ago.
Guess what? It’s happening again. All of the same symptoms to both plants, and no, I haven’t touched the seeds with contaminated hands, and/or in the same room or whatever. My friend was totally freaking at first, but called a seasoned grower, who looked at the two plants and said - Mutations. This explained everything, especially why my normal plants remained so.
He’s doing research on this, and went thru his explanation and theory which I’ll be reading up on today. According to him, mutations affect the potency (which I’ve noticed), and that some mutated strains are more sensitive to stressors than regular strains. So, I told him about my fert schedule and how the plants seemed to swing between lock out or potential nute burn.
He talked about having to foliar feed mutated plants more often than he cared to, in order to compensate for a far more diluted nute schedule. He also said sometimes a mutated plant will react badly if the PH was lower than 7. He saw no issues with the rest of my grow, but the blueberry and strawberry plants just don’t appear as healthy, and the buds aren’t as robust.
The question is, "how often does this happen in a strain, and what are the chances of one person receiving 6 seeds (3 blueberry and 3strawberry) that are growing the exact same way?

I’m flushing everything on Monday right before the 6 days of darkness, I’m not sure what to do about the mutated plants. They don’t seem as potent to me.

BTW, he said that we’re going to see an increase of “GMO” marijuana seeds, and that hopefully they’ll do a better job that what we’ve seen in GMO grown veggies, fruits and the like. I remember buying an apple during lunch from a supermarket about a year ago. It was a large, beautiful, red apple, just the right side to get me through lunch and hold me until after school. Walking back to the campus, I took a bite out of that apple and it was juicy, but NO TASTE - I swear! I had some friends bite into it and they were shocked at how flavorless it was.

After class, I took it back to the supermarket, told the guy in the fruit section and he gave me my money back, no questions asked. It was at that point I realized how cheap the apples were and said, “I’m not the only one, am I?” The guy just looked at me and said, "Is there anything else I can do you?"
That totally explained it all.

Something to consider, is the “mutations” to the seed could be due to the conditions it received during germination, epigenetics, not so much bad genetics in the seeds themselves.

This is why it is often necessary to grow a few seeds from the same strain and then chose to clone from the best producing one, and keep that as your selection from that strain.

Also, it is almost impossible to know for sure what you will get from seed, you just never know for sure how the DNA is going to pair up and what the end result will be. This is why you can still get the occasional male or hermaphrodite even in the best of feminized seeds. Life evolves and adapts, it is part of the process for survival, and so much about how cannabis grows is all about trying to survive and reproduce.

Happy growing,

MacG

If you check my past posts, you’ll see I’ve done nothing but consider everything, always coming back to something that I did wrong.lol But like I said, I did everything the same, and those two strains are the only ones doing this. I originally separated them from the other plants because I feared the spread of Tobacco Mosaic, but there isn’t anything happening to the other plants.

Keeping in mind that not all plants love the same concentrations of anything - including water - I’ve spent most this grow adjusting, testing, guessing and crying for some clue of what I was doing wrong - the soil? nutes? light? personality? lol But it can’t be the first three, because that’s the conclusion I drew, until realizing that the other plants were fine. Alot of people have grown the blueberry and strawberry kush in foxfarm products, and they’ve had great success, which brought it back to…me. Again.

I only had three seeds of blueberry, strawberry and pineapple, the “Fruity Mix” so using two of each was for the exact reason you stated, but in no way was I going to clone something that had such weird characteristics, especially since I didn’t know if it was viral, bacterial or just plain bad growing on my part.
That’s why I planted the last two seeds at a friend’s house with all new pots, tools, etc.

So, after all this ‘deducing’ I’m comfortable in stating that this is not something I’ve done directly, even though it’s only my fifth grow since getting my grow tent last year. Besides, if two people who are way more experienced at this than I am say “it’s not my doing” then I’m going to take that as enough evidence. I’m am bothered that ALL six seeds did this, but I’m going to do some reading on this to see if others do something different with theirs to keep them on the right track.

Never had a hermaphrodite plant crop up yet, so maybe once that happens I’ll be promoted to the level of 'Student with Potential?" :smile:

And yes, you, out of the numerous people that use our blueberry and strawberry, are the only one having this problem, I don’t know, it seems like you just want to attack our seeds.

I’m not saying it is specifically something you’ve done, who knows why your seeds are acting the way yours are, maybe something happened to them in the mail, got way too cold, or maybe too hot. Who knows. I’m not attacking you or trying to put the blame on you, I’m also just pointing out reasonable contributors, things that make seeds act differently.

~MacG

I’m very sorry that you feel I was attacking your seeds. I thought I was bringing to light something you and others would use for future use, if for no other reason than to see if it does come up more regular in the future. As I noted, a friend is doing research on GMO’s and marijuana, and how they were going to be the next big conversation on the horizon. If this is true- and I believe it is, based on the many strains out today-then I guess I expected you would be a part of it.
Heck, you probably heard this stuff years ago. I’m just getting now learning it, and was trying to approach it from an angle other than the one you’re more accustomed to hearing, the one that starts with, “I spent money for seeds that ain’t workin’ and I’m mad as hell and want to be compensated! Now!”

You know what I’m talking about. Either way, based on what I’ve learned from this site and the articles, I was asking the right questions and going about breaking down the problem in a good way. I really don’t know enough about you or your practices to even suggest anything was your fault. Does that make sense?

Never once did my conversation suggest sour grapes, the need for a refund or an intentional accusation. And, for the record, one of the main reasons I stay here is because of the very first time I used your seeds, you sent me new ones without interrogation, which I thought was pretty damn cool.

So I’m sorry if it appears I was trying to blame you. I guess I come from a generation where back in the day - when Compuserve was the door to the internet, not AOL - you posted info like a report to a ‘think tank,’ which is how I see this room.

I don’t think you’re attacking me, either, so no worries. You got a business and a following. You’re just defending what’s yours, that’s all.

Now leave me be before I start quoting from my libertarian manual of individualism.:wink:

I’m sorry, someone else went way off the rails about our seeds being infected with the tobacco mosaic virus. Partially I think I was combining the two threads and getting them confused. The other person, however refused to believe it most likely was related to a pH issue, and continued to insist it was the tobacco mosaic virus, which you are not doing.

And in going back and re-reading both threads, you are presenting a pretty fair, balanced and as you said in kind of a “good way”, unlike in the other thread.

I am not the breeder, but I know ILGM does not use GMO stuff, and I’ve even been told they are very “organic” in their growing and breeding programs.

Something to think about, we do have our seed guarantee, and if a significant amount of your seeds are not germinating, or maybe a problem like yours, we usually will send some replacement seeds out, no problems, just reply to your order confirmation e-mail or contact Claire or orders@ilovegrowingmarijuana.com and describe your mutant under performing seeds and ask if this would be covered under the guarantee, I’m sure they’ll take care of you. Like I said, we realize sometimes things do happen in the mail, or who knows what, but we stand behind our genetics.

Happy growing,

MacG

Yea I had a Skunk #1 that got the tobacco mosaic virus as well. I don’t know how, but she didn’t show any signs until a few weeks into flower. She was in the middle of 6 other plants, and none of the others contracted the virus. Those seeds I got from a competitor, so I think it’s just a random thing, and if you smoke tobacco you’re more likely to give the virus to your plants if you don’t keep everything separated and clean. I didn’t know that until I read about it. They say you could give it to your plants by smoking a cigarette, or even a blunt, and then handling plants, seeds, soil, pots, etc. I don’t think ILGM would put out bad seeds, just my opinion.

But now, I’ve noticed some leaves with black spots showing up…is this a sign of mold?

Maybe, it could possible be other things as well, bugs, pH or nutrient problems as well.

~Mac

@macgyverstoner yea I just flushed them hoping that might help with the issue. I don’t have pests tho, so it’s gotta be pH or nutes. But Mac, the plants will be harvested in a week, will this affect the harvest at all?

I would be worried about mold, especially in flower. How has you humidity been? You should be drying things out during flower.

A picture could help.

~MacG

Humidity is at 50 RH, never goes over 60. Constant fans blowing, with a steady temp of 70-75 F. The only thing I can think it would be is I noticed the bottom of the pots holding more water than I would like. I think I needed more perlite in the soil mix for better drainage. What do you think, could excess water in the bottom of the pot have done this? I didn’t water for a week just so the plant would use all the extra water. And when I say bottom, I mean the actually root ball and soil. When I flip the pot and check the ball, the bottom most part of it was still wet, while the top layer was dry.

Are these leaves that are showing these spots more on the bottom, closer to this wetter area?

Ok I just took some pics for you. This is my Widow Bomb, her harvest day is next week, depending on trichomes inspection.

This problem just started about 3-5 days ago.

And this is a bag seed that I grew, so I don’t know the strain. This discoloration just started about 3 days ago. She will be ready for harvest any day in the next week depending on trichomes inspection. But this plant is incredible and grew massive colas I was so pleased with it!

OK, well those leaves are almost totally gone/dead, as indicated by how yellow/faded they are. And you should remove them when the get about 3/4 or more yellow anyway.

It might be actually microbes, or mold of sorts, causing the black dots on leaves that far gone, but it might not be anything to worry about, it is just these leaves have no life left in them to naturally have any reserves to fight off any pathogens.

This is one of the reasons they should be removed when they get that yellow, as not to give a home for pathogens to grow on, until the point that he pathogens are strong enough to spread to healthier plant tissue.

I don’t really think it is a mold that is necessary something to worry about, as long as you remove them, those leaves should probably come right off, like the plant doesn’t want them attached anyway.

Outdoors, or maybe with more airflow, the natural movement might knock them off anyway.

So, clean your plants up and remove all leaves that come off with the slightest tug, and any others that look way far gone, if you have to pinch or cut them, cut the petiole (leaf stalk) about a half way point between the leaf and the main stem or bud.

~MacG

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Thanks once again @macgyverstoner, you are my weed growing savior haha! I’ll go in and get those leaves off right now. Should I take off the yellow leaves from the bag seed plant as well?

Either way, yes you do want to be careful, especially now, this late into flower, to not be over-watering, and so I’d say you are letting the soil stay too wet, and this isn’t likely helping. I always recommend, do not water again until the soil is nearly totally dried out, as by the feel of the weight of the container. This is a good habit to get used to the feel of the weight of the container with totally saturated soil and totally dry soil, to then know when to water next, you should only be watering when it feels totally dry, but the plant isn’t drooping yet from a lack of water. This will keep your roots happy and healthy and avoid root rot and other diseases that can come from too wet of soil.

~MacG

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If the leaves are significantly yellow, like 3/4 yellow, then yes.