They say aeroponics isn't for beginners

[TAGridyFarmer]

Man, and I thought I was the proud owner of some BlackDog technology…it’s supposed to out perform a 450HPS, but first grow? have no perspective on what one of those can or should do either…I thought that I purchased a full spectrum, commercial grade light with excellent PAR values and some really good canopy penetration capabilities. I’d love to know what you’d recommend as comparable for the same or less price because I really was impressed with mine so far and was thinking about picking up a 400 from the same model. How does my light look when you use 420 watts in that equation instead of 210? I’d love to know the nuance between the two outcomes but I’m not sure what equation you are using or how to interpret it?

I planned on growing 4 plants in my 3x3. I currently have 3 growing. I originally purchased a BlackDog 600, and when I was running trials with it my tent ran up to 95 degrees and the heat made my fans run constantly. It was also cooking my root chambers through the coolers keeping them in the mid 80s. I tried to cool things off and tweak it, but I came to the conclusion that the light was overkill for my space. I did not think the heat was appropriate and the fans running all the time meant I would have to sacrifice using the CO2 supplementation. Another problem it caused is that my root chambers and pump take up a lot of vertical room in the tent so I needed a powerful light that would accommodate what I have left for growspace. My plants ground level is waist high. So now with the 200 my fans keep the temps between 78 and 82 and the humidity 45 to 55%. The CO2 shoots up to around 1800 ppm every other fan cycle and keeps the average level between 800 and 1200 most of the time. With the 200 watt light all my other gear plays together like a symphony.

I still have the 600 and have been curious about if I could get away with it during the winter, but all of my girls grew 2+ inches in the last 24 hours with the system as is. My blueberry (which is mostly recovered from some pretty bad note burn/deficit?? I’ll try and get some pics) was standing tall at 25 inches last night when I took the pics. I just got home from work and took a peek and she’s at 28 inches and my three girls are drinking about 1 1/2 gallons of nutes a day right now. Do you guys think it would be wise to push them any harder?

[TAGridyFarmer]

Thanks man. South Park is religion in my house…

[Nicky]

Sounds like your growing well I would be hesitant to mess with it.

I wish you found us sooner you have spent alot of money lol.
Suggest you sell the 900

Look into kingbrites on Alibaba they are my #1 recommendation.
Personally I run two 240w, with reds uv & it but it’s pricey and over kill.

You could get two 240w w 660nm reds best bang for your buck with Max power.

Or run their stips 2x2/3x3 (3500k 301b + 660 reds) and then buy one or two single 560mm to add to it again 3500k 301b 66nm, this adds 70w per single.

And sell your two current lights.

Orrrrr buy one single 125w board to add to your current light.

But if you can sell your big one do it then buy the strips then keep your small one for a single plant or sell it after the kingbrites show up.
Bed now good night

[Joshmcginnis28]

@nicky has you covered it seems. And all’s I did for equation was get your sq ft. So 3*3=9. And the divided the true watts by that. So the 210/9.
Will give you watt per sqft

There are many other lights I’d consider better for that kind of money you have spent. After seeing what that 200 was I don’t even wanna see what paid for the 600.

It just depends what you are more comfortable with. A pre assemble light. Or a little diy and making one.

[Kotnmouf]

BlackDog lights are a different breed of light tho …until you’ve used their lights or seen a grow with your own eyes with their lights you really have no idea what they are…the most amazing results I’ve ever seen have came from Blackdog lights .
Anyways nice set up ,hope ya don’t mind me hanging out and taking some notes!

[Nicky]

While that may be your opinion the math is fact.
It’s science thing…
Has to do with radiation and biology

[Kotnmouf]

I get it ,I’m just saying from what I’ve seen ,There is something different about blackDog lights.

[TAGridyFarmer]

Nicky, math is indeed always correct, but mathematicians make mistakes all the time and interpretation of data is wrought with error. If we accept that the 200 watt power draw as the correct numerator (200/9) then we would certainly see it as a less than impressive light for the money. But what if a more appropriate numerator might be 420 to represent the radiation and biology? The light is supposed to be equivalent to a 420 watt HPS. IF my light is actually better represented by 420/9, then it’s over twice as strong as the impression your numbers represent. If not, it may very well be overpriced crap. Based on the testimonials and reviews I read BlackDog is an honest company that does not misrepresent their PAR levels or power draw, and have a reputation for being very good lights. Perhaps not the best or most modern technology available and certainly not the cheapest price point, but very good quality. So my question is, if we assume for a moment that the right equation is 420/9 then does it seem to be a more appropriate light for my space or would it still be inadequate in your opinion? Either way, if I can keep my gals alive, maybe my first grow will reveal the lights actual capabilities. Stay tuned.

[Nicky]

Valid question and point of view.

3x3=9sq ft
50-75 watts per sq ft is (need - ideal) for cannabis
9x50= 450w so your right at the bottom end

This is as per my understanding, I’m not a HID lighting person I’m an led person but
@peachfuzz could give us a better idea as he uses HPS systems.

Another factor one has to consider is the efficiency of the chips, regardless of Wattage if a chip and driver are very efficient they will produce more flux per watt.
That being said I think the best person for clarification on this light is @dbrn32, I doubt he has experience with them but he’s a lighting expert and if the website has the proper information he may be able to give us all a very solid answer.

Again I think @Joshmcginnis28 already nailed it but we will reach out for some clarification.

[Joshmcginnis28]

I’m by no means an expert. Just trying to share information I have gained. I could also be sharing it wrong. If so @dbrn32 will certainly set it straight.

I used the number 210 bc that was actual power draw. With amazon lights a lot of people are fooled bc will see an equivalent watt value and think their light is that.

Then I pulled the ppfd chart from their site for what I was pretty sure was that light. My understanding was need around 800 for flowering and any higher didn’t need unless running co2.

I believe the light will grow bud for sure. I mostly was surprised by the numbers vs price.

As always I wish you the best man ! And will definitely follow along to see results . Hope I didn’t offend or come off wrong when I gave my opinion.

[TAGridyFarmer]

No worries man, I’m not easily offended and I welcome the dialogue from everyone. I hope I didn’t sound offended to you, I really want to get some good knowledge from people here.

A few more gear and set up pics. You can see the way the tent is divided into a grow space up top and a “boiler room” underneath. The drains are pvc pipes and wrapped in insulation. The solenoid sits in beteeen the coolers and sends the food through the T joint into the root chambers. It’s is supposed to recirculate, but I don’t get much return so I think they drink up most of each spray.

Now for the ladies…

This is my smallest amnesia haze auto… she’s showing some rust spots but is growing fast.

You can see her sister amnesia haze is a bit larger in front of her. She’s my most healthy and green. Both of my amnesias self topped and have two main stalks?

Blueberry auto is my largest, but she’s got lots of purple stem and had lots of rusty nute problems. I think I have the issues tweaked and she’s still growing strong, but is she gonna be able to produce anything of quality?

[Nicky]

I agree it will grow bud.

@Joshmcginnis28 not sure on the pffd because i follow DLI if your not familiar with this it would be a great expansion of your current knowledge

@TAGridyFarmer can you post some pictures with your light off and your flash on I think your having calcium deficiency. Impossible to read plants without cool white lighting.

[TAGridyFarmer]

First two are the am. haze…the rest are the BB

[Nicky]

Increase calcium ensure PH is correct

[Joshmcginnis28]

@Nicky I’m vaguely familiar with it. Couldn’t find a precise number as the goal in each stage. Got my pen an paper. Take me to school lol.

Edit: bc with my understanding you use ppfd to calculate out and obtain DLI. So if can’t achieve a certain ppfd high enough. Won’t hit your dli in the 12 hour flowering period.

[TAGridyFarmer]

I start with distilled water and add calmag to my nute solution. I was mixing it out of order before and I think that might have been some of the problem. I started doing calmag first and then micro etc…I was adding calmag last at the first part of the grow. The rust spots were only on the big older fan leaves, but the spots are moving up to the higher fan leaves, but don’t seem to settle in around the smaller fan leaves close to the bud sights. I have no idea if a plant can recover or what the consequence of all that rust will be, but she’s alive…and for my first grow keeping them alive until the end will have to be a success for me. All three were germinated/rockwooled at the same time btw, but they all seem to be growing quite fast, but at different stages.

[TAGridyFarmer]

I check PH with a bluelab meter every other day, and the regulator I hooked up seems to be doing it’s job. It has not budged out of the 5.8 to 6.1 range. I’m currently feeding them all a transitional formula because the big one is flowering and the smaller ones have their first two white hairs, so by my best guess I have a plant in about the first week of bloom, and the other two are mid to late veg. ?? I have been feeding them nutes this week at an EC of 1.8, which has been increased gradually from straight water during seedling to where it is now. I remember reading that sometimes you need to raise your lights if they are too close, because your plant will burn itself up trying to drink enough to use up all the energy. I honestly don’t know if it’s a deficiency or an excess because all the things I’ve read say the symptoms look similar for both?

[dbrn32]

What is the question? I was reading above something about black dog lights, specifically the 200?

I didn’t see tvird party test report, but their claim is 210 watts with total radiometric flux (ppf) of 320 umols/s. That is 1.5 umol/joule, sounds believable to me. About the same as a qb 135 kit, which most would tell you two are required for
to flower a 3x3.

There may be a slight increase in ypf due to targeted spectrum, but i wouldn’t expect it to overtake nearly double, which would be close to what most popular led fixtures have in efficiency gains right now. The hlg-300 can be bought for about $400 and has total radiometric flux of 700 umols/s running at 2.55 umol/joule in comparison.

[TAGridyFarmer]

First question: In your opinion, is it a high quality light, or an overpriced mediocrity?

Second question: Is it adequate for my 3x3 tent with 1-4 plants?

Third series of queries: Would my Blackdog 600 be too much? I was having heat issues before , but it’s supposed to be a 1000 watt equivalent and it’s sitting right here in the box. Do people put 1000HPS in 3x3? Since you are a light guru and understand the specs and jargon, if you were me, would you continue with the smaller light and see how it goes? or swap it out for the larger light?

(I’d love to find someone to swap my 600 for a 400 because I think that would be my goldilocks. Better coverage, not too hot, just right.)