Start using DLI

That’s correct

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@Blastfact I hear your frustration but I hope you realize that two other senior members have tested an appogge meter with different phones (older now might I add) against the app and they were so close it was negligible.

Your new meter and two brand new flagship phones arnt working, super fustrating. However there are so many variables to this situation that it’s hard to blame one thing heck for all we know your appogge meter is reading off…

As I wrote above in the first post this is a tool, like any tool it has variables /moving parts that can fail be it the phones, the phones softwares, new cameras inside the phones, the appogge meter could be off, and when something feels off we try to verify with other methods like lux meter conversions, using our eyes, our judgment etc.

It didn’t work for you, and that’s unfortunate I can’t say what the issue is either.

@nmgeo why do you think photos and autos have a different DLI acceptance?

Below is my current recommendation, as soon as plants can handle 60 DLI (in an optimal environment of course keep your VPD dialed in) give them 60 DLI, watch for signs of light bleaching or scorching of course as each genetic will have different thresholds.
Also keep in mind if you want to LST your plant in a scrog or something else then keeping high light values and tight node spaces will make things more difficult so reduce lighting values to where you personally find the nodes are spaced apart enough, again this will change from genetic to genetic (even from the same strain).
Regardless once pre flower hits, or once we flip photos the idea is to ensure hitting as close to the 60 DLI as possible until mid to late flower (to avoid fox tails caused by high light values)

According to Dr. Bruce bugbee clones can take very high light values, they don’t need to be treated like seedlings contrary to old school belief (like the original chart shows) however I don’t have enough experience with clones to say i have tried that.

Remeber this is just from my personal knowledge and experience and is by no means a copy and paste method, reading your plant, keeping your environment ideal and knowing your grow is key.

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So with my Android phone the app reads approximately 60 dli and this plant that is starting 8 weeks of 12/12 tomorrow. I set it on the red/blue setting for my hlg 350r light. Are you suggesting that I start dimming the light now?

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@Nicky, The Apogee is calibrated and checks out good against the clear sky calculator. So that variable can be removed. And the clear sky calculator can be used to calibrate the phone/app if one has the sunshine module installed. But again it’s not near as accurate as a real meter. I spent decades using lux, candle, foot meters, prisms and chart projections, all sorts of crap trying to figure out lighting intensity’s and true spectrums. It got insane! I should have bought a Apogee when they came out. That’s what I’m frustrated about. Is my dumbass delayed on buying a real meter and pulling my head out. And in a effort to stay it off even longer I tried Photone, LMAO at myself. I still have what, 11 months or so on my purchase for two phones. Not like I’m going to be able to get my money back. So maybe, just maybe there will be a ios or droid update or Photone will have updates that address my concerns. I could go in each phone and do a offset for the sensor but is adjusting for one app worth risking how the sensor works for all the other apps that use it and work perfect. Or can I do a offset for just one app??? That may well be a fun project come next winter when boredom and cabin fever try setting in. As a tool it’s a knuckle buster for me right now. It’s the difference between a walmart china hand wrench set and a set of Proto, Blackhawk or Craftsman made in Dallas. Starting the third week of flower I’m at 940 PPFD, DLI @ 40.61 and VPD right where I want it @ 80f / 60% rh the grow is in Cadillac mode. If I were to believe the app the iphone would have me turning down my light and the Ultra 21 would have my turning them up. I don’t even want to think what the seedlings would be going through in my other grow. Vaporized or the yellow death. And to be honest like you and other seasoned growers over all pro or con it’s really not a big deal. But I do worry about the new growers, many of which think there cell phones are infallible. Why they don’t use them to do more research before they jump off into a coco first grow blows my mind. But these poor folks have issues even learning to water there plants and controlling basic environmental set points. But the infallible cell phone says! Over all I really don’t worry about much. But growing is such a part of my life, like riding motorcycles, shooting and other activity’s I do. I worry about new growers just like new riders, shooters, reloaders for example. While they over all wont face death or hurting themselves growing like the other activity’s I mentioned. They seem more fragile and confused now days than ever before. Only worry we had when I started was getting busted and ending up on a juvenile work farm/prison. :slight_smile:

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Nicky I use the Photone more as a reference… I do what the plants tell me and I do get them up in the DLI range and watch nodes growth

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I completely see where your coming from. Glad to hear the sensor you know is good.

@nmgeo glad to hear, I’m in the same boat and as should anyone who doesn’t have a appogge meter

Is Apogee the only acceptable meter to buy? $400 is just a little too rich for my bank account right now. Yes, I use my phone but I’d rather have a meter.

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I’ve been feeling the same way recently

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There is Spoton, Sun System and several other meter manufacturers.

These are still in or around $400.

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Stuff cost. Good lights cost good money. Heck a set of tires for my Goldwing cost $400 or better and if I’m on twisties messing with sport bikes I can go through a set in a 1k miles easy. A new pistol $500 to $2k. It all cost money. But once you get a meter your grow life gets so much better.

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Just use an older phone phome and the app =p

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You missed my point, but anyway I’ll just duct tape a stick t my iPhone 13 and call it a day.

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I didn’t miss the point at all. There are PAR/PPFD Meters under $400. There is even useless cheap China junk PAR/PPFD Meters out there.

'ppreciate the recommendations, thanks!

still looking for acceptable options in the $200 range if anyone else has any.

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Awesome thread! I have been lurking! DLI and Photone app simplified. I cannot say how thankful I am that you pro’s openly share all advice. Big thanks @Nicky @BobbyDigital and @Hellraiser and all others who contributed!

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I agree with you @GoingGreen . I wish I had this forum to go to when I started growing, would of madw my life a little easier for sure. All I had was a couple growers that would tell me :poop: you’ll figure it out. Well 15 years later, I’m still learning. :100::100:

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