Some general questions for the next step going into Veg

[MagicCultivator420]

Hello everyone,
this is my first grow, and things are finally moving along (slowly but picked up the pace last week). I have some general questions regarding the next step going from seedling to veg if anyone can help please.

I have 3 plants, here they are: 2 are 24 days old, 1 is 18 days old. Feminized seeds:

RQS Amnesia Haze:

RQS Critical:

Seedsman Blueberry:

I know they might be a bit small for their age, I had stunted growth for about a week by removing the plastic bags (acting as humidity domes) off of them too soon, with my tent RH being between 38% - 48% which I reckon was too low for the little seedlings (in the plastic bags it was getting up to 88%). Now they’ve been back under humidity domes for the last 8 days or so (this time using bottles of water cut in half with 2 holes for ventilation, instead of plastic bags though, find them more convenient).

Some info on my setup:
-Tent: 4x2
-Media is Canna Coco 70% / 30% Perlite.
-Currently I have the lights (Electric Sky V3 330 Watts with a dimmer) 36" high, set to 50% on the dimmer. PPFD from the Photone App is 170.
-Temperature / Humidity: 19C - 21C (66F - 70F) / 38% - 48%
-Extractor: 6" AC Infinity with Smart Controller set to Speed 3 from 10.
-Misting the sides of the water bottles/humidity domes 3 times a day (at about 8 hour intervals) to keep humidity up.
-Using Advanced Nutrients pH Perfect, feeding daily with a syringe. Started at 400 EC and worked my way up gradually in increments of 50-75 EC. Feeding today was 60ml each plant, and got over 10% runoff. EC today 775 (400 PPM), with a seedling blend my local grow shop suggested consisting of:
-Sensi Grow Coco A and B: 0.5 ml/L
-B-52: 1 ml/L
-Voodoo Juice: 1 ml/L
-Piranha: 1 ml/L
-Nirvana: 1 ml/L

So, some questions I have please for the next step in case someone could pitch in:

1. I’m reckoning I should remove the ‘humidity domes’ now, but since the humidity in the tent without the domes is around 38% to 48%, will this stunt growth again, or are the plants’ roots established enough now?
2. When should I start using my 6 inch clip-on fan? Haven’t been using it for now since the plants were in domes.
3. PPFD at 170 is too low now for the stage they’re in?
4. Should start thinking of transplanting to my 12.5 Ltr / 3.3 Gal Airpots now? These will be their final containers.
5. Are they drinking enough? 60 ml seems awfully low, but I’m getting over 10% runoff.

Thanks again in advance for any help, this community has been really great with me so far, and I really appreciate that.

[dbrn32]

@MagicCultivator420

’m reckoning I should remove the ‘humidity domes’ now, but since the humidity in the tent without the domes is around 38% to 48%, will this stunt growth again, or are the plants’ roots established enough now?

You can remove them. You should try getting your canopy temps up to around 80 if possible. I bet they will take off if you do.

@MagicCultivator420

When should I start using my 6 inch clip-on fan? Haven’t been using it for now since the plants were in domes.

Now is good. Don’t blow them over though, a slight wiggle a couple times a minute is good. It will help strengthen the main stems.

@MagicCultivator420

PPFD at 170 is too low now for the stage they’re in?

Increase gradually to a ppfd average around 400 umols/s for veg.

@MagicCultivator420

Should start thinking of transplanting to my 12.5 Ltr / 3.3 Gal Airpots now? These will be their final containers.

You have probably week or so before i would wory about transplant.

@MagicCultivator420

Are they drinking enough? 60 ml seems awfully low, but I’m getting over 10% runoff

Keep feeding to runoff. They are going to start sucking coco dry quickly.

[MagicCultivator420]

Thanks so much @dbrn32 You answered all of my questions in one fell swoop, and I really appreciate that

[beardless]

This chart has some of the items you asked and answered by dbrn32

[MagicCultivator420]

Wow!! Thanks so much for this chart @beardless I’m a real geek for numbers and stats, so a chart like that is something I really find interesting. It’s quite a comprehensive little list also even differentiating between day and night which I really like! Thanks so much for this!

Unfortunately, some bad news, I ran into 2 problems today

1. This green stuff (looks kinda like sludge from certain angles) is growing on the coco. (the plant on the left)
2. One of my plants is getting brown spots on it, especially on the tips, but even a bit on the inside of a leaf. (the plant in the middle)

I will post pics of my set up and of the problems I saw today:

Set up:

Green stuff on coco: (the first 2 pics are with my camera’s flash on, the 3rd one is without flash)

Brown spots/burnt tips:

From some googling I did, I think the green stuff is algae, but would like some help from the pros to really identify this is possible. Is it harmful? If it is algae, how did this happen? I’m only feeding once a day (around 100 ml each plant lately) and always water till run off. Isn’t one of the benefits of coco the fact that you could fertigate lots of times in a day? So how did this happen with me just watering once, when I see people say you could water up to 5 times a day in flower?

Regarding the brown spots/burnt tips, I’m thinking this is nute burn? Weird though cause it happened to my fastest growing plant, and I feed each plant approximately the same amount Only different things that happened these past 2 days were taking the humidity domes off of them and switching on the clip on fan to the left. I have the fan set on a timer for 3 hours on / 30 mins off just to give the little girls a break occasionally. Was on 850 EC 2 days ago, yesterday got up to 925 EC, today hit 1000 EC of the seedling blend I listed in my first post. I was going to start more aggressive feeding tomorrow, but it looks like I’ll have to hold off for now till I figure if these brown spots/tips are nute burn I don’t think it’s a CalMag deficiency (but I could be wrong). I’m using Canna coco which is pre-rinsed and pre-buffered, and Advanced Nutrients’ Coco line, which according to them, has enough CalMag in it to avoid needing extra myself.

Thanks in advance once again for all the help, and sorry for all the questions and topics x_X I really do appreciate everyone’s help/assistance and knowledge though.

[beardless]

I am a little confused the EC number. I usually see EC as a single digit and tenths. Unless you are using microSiemens. 1000 microSiemens = PPM of 500 (500 scale) or 700 (if 700 scale)
Expressed as EC 1000 MicroSiemens = 1.0 EC

This is from Botonicare
What is the difference between EC, PPM, and TDS?

• EC = Electrical Conductivity
• PPM = Parts Per Million
• TDS = Total Dissolved Solids
• All meters/pens measure EC. The EC measurement is then converted to PPM or TDS using the following formulas;
• EC X 700 = PPM 700; Example: 1.00 EC = 700 ppm.
• Or 1.3 EC x 700 = 910 ppm
• EC X 500 = TDS (or PPM 500); Example: 1.00 EC = 500 ppm.
• Or 1.3 EC x 500 = 650 ppm

@MagicCultivator420

green stuff is algae,

I get it on my seedling trays and pots too. I also use coco. Once they go in larger pots and more light, the surface dries enough to the point I don’t see much of it again.

Nutrients? Did you say what you are using?

[MagicCultivator420]

Hello again @beardless thanks so much for replying so promptly.

@beardless

1000 microSiemens = PPM of 500 (500 scale) or 700 (if 700 scale)
Expressed as EC 1000 MicroSiemens = 1.0 EC

Yeah, I’m using microSiemens with a scale of 1000 = 500 PPM. So I reached 1.0 EC with today’s feeding (1020 microSiemens was the exact amount).

@beardless

I get it on my seedling trays and pots too. I also use coco. Once they go in larger pots and more light, the surface dries enough to the point I don’t see much of it again.

Ah, cool that you’re a coco grower also, so we’re both using the same medium which helps troubleshoot the issue easier. Thanks for confirming this, so it’s normal then? Not cause I’m overwatering or doing anything wrong from my part? Light is 36" away at 50% intensity currently.

@beardless

Nutrients? Did you say what you are using?

Using Advanced Nutrients pH Perfect, their specific coco line. The 2 plants on the left are 27 days old from seed, and the one on the right is 21 days old, so I reckon they should be able to take 1000 EC by now. Seeing cocoforcannabis’ example timelines (https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/how-to-grow-cannabis-seedlings-in-coco-coir/#timelines), he gets to 1000 EC at day 14, and starts fertigating twice a day at around day 6 - 8. I’m roughly using his measurements, but playing it more defensively since this is my first grow, like I haven’t fertigated twice in a day yet to let the plants acclimate themselves to the nutrients slowly.

Thanks again to everyone for any help or advice, I really do appreciate it more than words could show. I’ve really been waiting to grow for a long time, and it finally became legal a couple of months ago here.

[beardless]

Lots in common.
I add microbes to my feed so I figured it is part of that. Right or wrong, that’s what I think. It is not a problem. Right now I have a tray of clones covered with a dome. High humidity city and I have some green stuff on top. It kind of likes perlite.
Before I changed to Jack’s 321 I used AN Iguana line and a bunch of supplements. I restocked my AN before switching so I use a lot of it in combination with Jack’s. Sensi, Bud Candy, Rhino Skin and Big Bud. I am using FishSh!t this round otherwise I added Voodoo Juice and Piranha.

As for the leaves. You are using good nutrients and although it is pH Perfect, me being me, I would check to make sure pH is where it needs to be with coco. If you are good there, I’m thinking as long as new growth looks healthy, you should be in the clear.

[MagicCultivator420]

@beardless

Lots in common.
I add microbes to my feed so I figured it is part of that. Right or wrong, that’s what I think. It is not a problem. Right now I have a tray of clones covered with a dome. High humidity city and I have some green stuff on top. It kind of likes perlite.

I’m adding Voodoo Juice and Piranha which are beneficial bacteria (these are the same as microbes correct?), if so, then it looks like I’m in the same boat as you with the algae. Indeed, my perlite went green way before the coco started to.

@beardless

Before I changed to Jack’s 321 I used AN Iguana line and a bunch of supplements. I restocked my AN before switching so I use a lot of it in combination with Jack’s. Sensi, Bud Candy, Rhino Skin and Big Bud. I am using FishSh!t this round otherwise I added Voodoo Juice and Piranha.

I’ve heard lots of good things about AN, and not having to bother with adjusting pH seemed like a good idea. I also heard lots of good comments about Jack’s on these forums, so I’ll definitely give those a try also when I’m more confident.

@beardless

As for the leaves. You are using good nutrients and although it is pH Perfect, me being me, I would check to make sure pH is where it needs to be with coco. If you are good there, I’m thinking as long as new growth looks healthy, you should be in the clear.

I also check pH after mixing a new batch, comes in at 6.4 - 6.5 for the seedling blend I’m using (half strength of week 1 recommended dosage of each:base nutes+voodoo+piranha+b52+nirvana). Seems slightly on the high side for coco unless I’m mistaken (isn’t ideal 5.5 - 6.3?), but AN says not to add pH adjusters as they could interfere with the way the pH Perfect technology works. I’m thinking/hoping that the pH will drop closer to the ideal range once I start adding a higher dose of the base nutrients.

There is some browning at the tips on the new growth, but far less than on the first 2 sets of true leaves. I’m hoping it’s till the plant acclimates itself to the new EC value…

Thanks once again for your constant replies. This community has been really nice to me, it feels good knowing I’m not alone on this journey.

[beardless]

Microbes - yes re Voodoo & Piranha. I am using FishSh!t rather than two AN products.
What AN pH perfect coco line are you using? Sensi Grow A & B?
Your feed pH of 6.4 - 6.5 is definitely on the high end for coco. I thought pH Perfect is supposed to lock it at 5.5 - 6.3 for a week (per AN). I am not sure what is going on there. It may be water related. That is, high mineral high pH tap water Vs RO or distilled water. Let me ask someone if he can shed some light on this.
@Hellraiser I hope you have a minute to help @MagicCultivator420 out with AN PH perfect for coco.
OP is currently using low dose amounts of pH perfect. However, the feed pH is coming in at 6.4+. It is OP’s understanding AN recommends not adjusting pH but rather, let the product do the work.
Thoughts or recommendation if you please. Thanks

[beardless]

I like this pH chart for hydro and soil from KootMed

[MagicCultivator420]

Hello again @beardless Cheers for all your replies, and also for the tag, I really appreciate your constant support.

Yes, I’m using Sensi Grow A and B pH Perfect, with Voodoo Juice, Piranha, B52 and Nirvana. So, today I’m working from home, so I had some time to mix up a new batch in advance, and I followed AN’s schedule for Veg Week 1 instead of the seedling blend I was doing (basically it is double what I was currently feeding). Veg Week 1 from AN is:

Sensi Grow A and B: 1 ml/L of each
Voodoo Juice: 2 ml/L
Piranha: 2 ml/L
B52: 2 ml/L
Nirvana: 2 ml/L

Unfortunately, this didn’t make a drastic change on the pH. It hovers around 6.2 - 6.3:

EC of this batch is 1195 (597 PPM)

I’m using bottled water with a pH of 7.4, 160 EC (80 PPM).

I have a reverse osmosis unit ordered, it should be arriving sometime this week

Regarding my plant that has the brown spots, I reckon I should dilute this nutrient batch for it with more water seeing as I basically doubled the ml of the seedling blend I was giving till yesterday? I mean, if it’s getting nute burn from the seedling blend, let alone what a double dose would do, correct?

Regarding that chart you posted, if the AN nutes actually did lock the pH at 5.5, won’t that lock my plants out of Phosphorus and Magnesium though?

Thanks once again, I really can’t stress that enough!

[MagicCultivator420]

Sorry but I should add this just to be clear, I’m using Sensi Grow Coco A and B. Thanks again

[beardless]

[quote=“MagicCultivator420, post:12, topic:84062”]T
pH at 5.5,
[/quote]I
That would be low and out to range for P and Mg. The pH I generally mix to 5.8 - 6.0. However, with my autopots I will go down to 5.7 knowing the pH will drift up and be 6.0 by the time I need to replenish the reservoir.
You must be using week 1 veg rates? Given the size & age I don’t think 600 is too heavy. Backing off a bit is OK as long as they are getting fed enough. Monitoring runoff will help with that.
I think these are useful reference charts

This is a link to my current journal to see what I have going. Only three plants
GDP to start the new year

[MagicCultivator420]

@beardless

That would be low and out to range for P and Mg. The pH I generally mix to 5.8 - 6.0. However, with my autopots I will go down to 5.7 knowing the pH will drift up and be 6.0 by the time I need to replenish the reservoir.

Got it, I emailed AN also, let’s see what they reply, especially if they’re saying I shouldn’t be amending the pH myself.

@beardless

You must be using week 1 veg rates?

Yep, just started the first feeding with Week 1 Veg rates today. Yesterday’s feeding I finished the seedling blend by slowly increasing up to 1000 EC (in increases of 50 - 75 EC a day). Had started off with 400 EC like 10 days ago and worked my up slowly from there.

@beardless

Monitoring runoff will help with that.

By monitoring runoff you mean making sure I get at least 10% runoff? Or measuring the EC of the runoff?

Thanks also for the charts, really don’t know why the middle plant is getting those brown spots/tips, there were even a few new ones today Even the chart states it should be able to take 1300 EC. The bottom chart looks more conservative. Like end of Veg in the bottom chart is 700 PPM, but the top chart goes up to 900 PPM.

Thanks also for the link to your journal, I’ll be sure to see it, and I set it to ‘Watching’ also in my notifications to be informed of new posts!

[MagicCultivator420]

Hello again @beardless So I heard back from Advanced Nutrients, this was their reply:

‘When using lesser amounts of the base nutrients the nutrient mix may not adjust as far as you may expect, however, due to the way the pH Perfect technology works making the nutrition available at a wide range from pH 4.0-8.0 without adjustment the plants will still feed effectively during this time.’

They also stated that the brown spots I have on that plant are from a nutrient deficiency, not from nute burn! I upped the dosage as they suggested, and I’m happy to say that the plant is actually thriving, growing it’s 5th set of true leaves now. I’ll transplant it to it’s final container early next week! Soon to be manifolded the Nebula way!

With the new batch of nutes I mixed with 2ml/L instead of 1ml/L, pH came in at 6.0-6.1.

I also got an RO system installed yesterday Still flushing out the membrane currently, EC out of the RO is reading as 180 (90 PPM) currently (from our tap water which is 1600 EC (800 PPM)!!!. I really need to invest in a permeate pump to recover more water though, to make 6 liters of usable water yesterday 110 liters went to drain! x_X That’s a 1:18 ratio which is horrible.

[Gronasbros]

I also needed this so thanks

[MagicCultivator420]

@MagicCultivator420

I really need to invest in a permeate pump to recover more water though, to make 6 liters of usable water yesterday 110 liters went to drain! x_X That’s a 1:18 ratio which is horrible.

Hello everyone, just thought I’d update. After installing a stronger booster pump I got my RO to a 1:4 ratio which is acceptable Just putting this out there in case it helps someone else also that might encounter the same problem.