SOIL, PH, PPM, RunOff / please explain 2 me

HEI fellowgrowwers.

Me want ask some question about growing in soil and ppm/ph readings.
Lets say, I pour 7.1PH water on soil and RunOff is 5.9 is this normal? what is % what goes lost in soil?
(4plants , one is not so well, but others thrive)

When to watch ppm?
If I feed plant, what lifecycle needs what amount of ppm reading, can some1 link me some chart or something…
and whats with that ppm runoff reading? What I do with that? If i get ,lets say runoff ppm 330 and my plants just entering flowering. Is this good&bad? What’s feeding ppm right readings? Chart is best option to say it to me :wink:
Thank you all. @dbrn32 @Daddy @Nug-bug @BIGE @bob31 @MattyBear @neckNflu @AmnesiaHaze @Mikos @

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@beginner2d hey there welcome to the forum, Ph and PPMs are very important in soil growing, first having you Ph level at the right level for soil means that your plants can absorb the nutrients you feed her with are between 6.5 and 7.0 for best results, second PPMs you can buy in must places is a meter that measures the amount of off a nutrient level in you runoff to ensure that your plants have enough to mature and flower it means a lot you will receive alot off advice on this subject PPMs stands for Parts Per Million and measures that amount off it in your runoff that range can vary between 500 in veg to 1200 in flower even 1500 when flowering in hope this helps you for now if I can help I will just tag me in ok and good luck you will find the help you need here for sure it’s a brilliant form :v:

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@beginner2d the Ph dropping in your readings could be if your soil is fortified with nutrients it can lower the PH readings but maybe not that much tho we will get you there tho.

300ppm is low for flowering plants, and a your ph in vs out is showing that your growing medium is trending down in ph. As far as to answer your questions.

What nutrients are you using? Most have a schedule that will show you recommended ppm levels for different stages of your plants.

As far as the ph goes, there are things you can do to combat that. Amending or topdressing your medium with dolomite lime is one of them. But I suspect the bigger issue is what you’re putting in. What’s ph of your feed? If you mix nutes with water it will usually drop. And how are you measuring?

@beginner2d first off alot of things can cause your pH in the soil to drop. The type of nutes, build ups in soil and even the good bacteria just feeding in the soil will make it more acidic. You really want to stay in the 6.3-6.8 range (depending on soil type and nutrient line you are using). @dbrn32 is correct, go by the manufacturer recommendations. For your ppm. You want what comes out to be lower then what goes in. It tells you the plant is actually eating. If your ppms out are higher then 600-800… it usually means you are having a lockout situation because of a soil pH issue, but still follow manufacturers recommendations. All lines are different.

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@Johnzy81, @dbrn32 OK thx.
I use pH lowerer too much I think, 3 watering on row… 2much. And N feeding only. 5/0/1
First time trying that pH lowerer. I learn.
Last time I don’t measure nothing and don’t change pH and everything is OK, but 1 girl. Ilgm seeds are so strong, they can go through water&fire, literally. And now same story, 1 plant is suffering. This become habit. But last time this struggling one finally turn out very nice yielding and best flavor blueberry.
I use general organics nutes. I must look in internet feeding chart. Yes last grow I mix dolomite with my feeding water. And it worked well

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If you’ve got it covered that’s good. If not, could you explain how you’re measuring ph?

Tap water. PH pen in water. Look up number. Pour water in medium. When ~10% runoff water come out in tray then measure that water… Or there some other way to do this? :roll_eyes:

I just want to know if this all measuring up is worth it. Last time I can master my grow without having any issues almost. Every grow there is one plant who is sh1tty grower. IMG_20180222_160306
IMG_20180223_103747
IMG_20180219_161257

That sounds about right. You’re doing the same process when you feed right? Mix nutes and then adjust ph?

I agree there’s always one that doesn’t want to go along with the program. But that’s exactly why you take the measurements. If and when there’s an issue, you should be able to identify it.

I have no clue with general organic line, but 300 ppm seems very low for that stage plants. So I would do more looking around at that.

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Runoff was 300ppm. Or you mean feeding water?
But plants look healthy to me. IMG_20180220_111120
Lot brances.,healthy green.

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Either way it seems low. What ppm are you feeding with? How many ml’s of which bottles?

I’m not real good at diagnosing nutrient problems, but some of those leaves could potentially be showing early signs of a potassium deficiency. Maybe @Donaldj or @garrigan62 could help, they’re real good at this kind of stuff.

@beginner2d

First I want to " Welcome You To ILGM "

Ok…You Problem Seems To Be…

HERE IS A PIC

nitrogen-toxicity-flowering-sm

The following symptoms are for when your cannabis leaves are “clawing” or curling up or curling down. I’ll give a short explanation with pictures of each problem, plus links to the solutions! Fix this common (but hard to diagnose) marijuana problem today!

Nitrogen Toxicity

A Nitrogen toxicity is the result of the plant getting too much Nitrogen (usually from too high levels of nutrients overall, or by using a Vegetative nutrient in the flowering stage). It causes dark green leaves and curled tips (“the claw”).

One of the main symptoms of an Nitrogen toxicity is curled tips ("the claw

HERE IS A P

Nitrogen Toxicity


Nitrogen toxicity - too much nitrogen - Cannabis growing problemProblem: Dark green leaves, shiny leaves, clawing, weak stems, and overall slow growth. Marijuana leaves that are nitrogen toxic often get “The Claw” or talon-like leaves that are bent at the ends. They also do an odd curving (or cupping) that is often mistaken for overwatering, but is unique to nitrogen toxicity. You can see a “clawing” leaf pictured to the right and more pictures below (click each picture for a close-up).

Leaves that turn into claws often start turning yellow and dying if the nitrogen toxicity is not treated, much like a nitrogen deficiency, only the leaves will continue to get more and more clawed. Leaves eventually turn yellow or brown and fall off. You can tell if yellowing is caused by too much nitrogen because the rest of the plant will be dark green, and the yellowing leaves will turn into claws first.

The majority of times that growers encounter problems with nitrogen, it’s from giving too much of it to their plants.

Many new growers accidentally give their plants give too much Nitrogen, especially in the flowering stage. This results in dark, shiny, clawing leaves.

A Nitrogen toxicity can also cause certain leaves to turn yellow, but other than that it looks nothing like a cannabis nitrogen deficiency​

Your plant needs a lot of nitrogen in the vegetative stage, and it’s generally hard to give too much as long as you’re not going completely overboard with nutrients. Nitrogen is a big part of what makes leaves green, and is incredibly important to the process of photosynthesis (making energy from light).

But cannabis plants need relatively low levels of Nitrogen in the second half of the flowering/budding stage. While your plants still need N (nitrogen) during flowering, too much N at this stage will prevent your plants from forming buds properly, resulting in lower yields, less potency and possibly inferior buds.

This is why it’s important to avoid any type of “time-release” nutrients or soil (for example, standard Miracle-Gro soil) as they will keep giving your plant a lot of N even after its started flowering.

When it comes to nitrogen, this is what your plant needs:

Vegetative Stage - higher levels of Nitrogen (pretty much any plant food will do)

Most complete plant foods that you get at a gardening store contain high levels of nitrogen (N). These nutrient systems tend to work well in the vegetative stage.

Some examples of cannabis-friendly one-part Vegetative nutrient systems…

Dyna-Gro “Foliage Pro”

General Hydroponics “Flora Nova Grow”

Pretty much any complete plant food

Flowering Stage - lower levels of Nitrogen (use “Bloom” or Cactus nutrients)

It’s extra important to find a nutrient system with lower levels of nitrogen for the last part of your plant’s life. Many “Bloom” or “Flowering” style base nutrients are just the ticket.

Some examples of good one-part Flowering nutrient systems…

Dyna - Gro “Bloom”

General Hydroponics “Flora Nova Bloom”

If you can’t order online and can’t find a good one-part base Bloom formula locally, you do have other choices. Though not an ideal choice, most Cactus plant foods will contain good nutrient ratios for growing cannabis during the budding stage. So in a pinch, you can use the cactus nutrients that can be found at most gardening stores.

Different strains react differently to nitrogen toxicity. Some plants get dark green leaves with no clawing. Some strains will get leaves that do the weird 90 degree bend at the tips, while other strains or individual plants start curling like claws and then turn yellow / brown and fall off like a deficiency. Yet these are all signs of too much nitrogen.

Signs of Nitrogen Toxicity

This marijuana plants has been fed too much nitrogen Dark green leaves and foliage

Leaf tips may turn down, without signs of overwatering.

You may notice yellowing on the affected leaves or other signs of nutrient deficiencies as time goes on

Nitrogen toxicity is often but not always accompanied by nutrient burn

The Claw often seems random, affecting leaves here and there

Heat and pH problems will make the clawing worse, as they stress out the plant and lower her defenses, and cause her to drink more water (and uptake more N)

As time goes on, the claw leaves will eventually start turning yellow, getting spots, and dying

Too much nitrogen causes marijuana leaves to curl down and Dark green leaves are a sign of nitrogen toxicity

Solution: Reduce the Nitrogen your plant is getting!

Reduce the amount of nitrogen that is being fed to the plants. If you are feeding extra nutrients, cut down that amount. If you are in the flowering / budding stage, make sure you’re using a formula that’s specifically meant for flowering, or else it could have too much nitrogen.

If you are not feeding extra nutrients, you may have “hot” soil that has been giving your plants extra nutrients. In that case, flush your plants with filtered, p H’ ed water to help clear out the extra nitrogen.

Effected leaves likely won’t recover, but you should see the problem halt with no new leaves being affected.

Wait! I’m not sure if it’s Nitrogen toxicity!

Nitrogen toxicity in marijuana makes clawed leaves that look like talons Ok, you ruled out overwatering, now what?

When I first got started growing, everyone kept telling me that this particular kind of leaf clawing was caused by under or overwatering my plants, pH problems, or heat problems.

Yet in my case, I knew that it wasn’t over or under watering (I was growing in hydro, where roots grow directly in water and air stones are constantly adding oxygen). I knew it wasn’t pH (my reservoir water had the right pH) and I knew it wasn’t heat since the grow area was slightly cooler than room temperature.

So then what was really causing my claw leaves?

It’s understandable that other growers were mistaken. It is true that many stresses will make any other problem worse.

Plus overwatering can cause a similar kind of leaf clawing (learn more below). And if you do have nitrogen toxicity, than heat or pH problems will make the problem much worse.

Now, you may or may not know that marijuana (or any plant) needs an element known as “Nitrogen” to grow.

In fact, nitrogen is one of the 3 nutrients that are included in almost every kind of plant food.

When looking at plant nutrients, you’ll almost always see 3 numbers listed, like 3-12-6 or 5-10-5. These numbers represent the ratio of Nitrogen (N), Phosphorous § and Potassium (K) contained in the bottle. Just about all plant life on Earth needs these 3 elements to grow.

See the nutrient numbers listed on the front?

The very first number, “3” in the case of the picture to the right, always displays the proportion of nitrogen in this nutrient bottle compared to the other 2 nutrients (Phosphorus and Potassium respectively).

The reason nitrogen is in all plant nutrient formulations is because it’s vital to plant processes.

For marijuana plants, when they don’t get enough nitrogen, the bottom leaves start turning yellow and dying. Left unchecked, a nitrogen deficiency can cause the whole plant to eventually die.

However, this time we’re the dealing with the opposite problem: nitrogen toxicity, or too much nitrogen.

Why You Should Treat And Prevent Nitrogen Toxicity

Marijuana plants that get too much Nitrogen in the vegetative stage don’t grow as vigorously.

Too much nitrogen is especially harmful in the flowering stage, because this will cause your plant to produce much smaller buds.

If you react quickly and reduce your nitrogen levels at the first sign of toxicity, your plant will quickly recover.

Note: Some strains with the word “Claw” in the name tend to do The Claw more easily than others.

Problems with excess nitrogen are not common in the wild; it’s a lot more common to see nitrogen toxicity on indoor plants, especially when overzealous growers go overboard with nutrients.

Occasionally you’ll come across a strain or particular plant that likes lower levels of nutrients, and when this happens, it’s important to realize the plant is showing signs of toxicity, even if all the other plants in your garden seem fine.

One of the most common signs off too-many-nutrients is “nutrient burn,” or when the tips of your leaf appear brown or burned. Yet there are specific signals your plant will display when she’s getting too much nitrogen…

Recap: How You Know You Have a Nitrogen Toxicity

Dark green leaves and foliage
Leaf tips turn down, without signs of overwatering.
You may notice yellowing on the affected leaves or other signs of nutrient deficiencies as time goes on.
Nitrogen toxicity is often but not always accompanied by nutrient burn
The Claw often seems random, affecting leaves here and there

Heat and pH problems will make the clawing worse, as they stress out the plant and lower her defenses, and cause her to drink more water (and uptake more N)

As time goes on, the claw leaves will eventually start turning yellow, getting spots, and dying

Light and “The Claw”

The distance between the leaves to the lights or irregular light patterns from reflectors often seem to affect the condition, which is why many growers believe that light is somehow causing the problem.

You may notice this clawing first appears on dark green leaves that aren’t getting enough light (they aren’t able to use up all their nitrogen and become nitrogen toxic).

The Claw in the Flowering Stage

If you use vegetative plant nutrients during the flowering stage, then they’ll deliver too much nitrogen. This is why you need to get special nutrients meant for the blooming / flowering stage. You’ll notice that flowering nutrients always contain a smaller percentage of nitrogen (the first number) compared to nutrients for the vegetative stage. Learn more about marijuana nutrients here.

Many growers mistakenly keep raising nutrient levels or adding additional nitrogen when they see yellow leaves in the flowering stage, not realizing that it’s natural for plant leaves to start yellowing as harvest approaches. Adding too much nitrogen in the flowering stage can cause nitrogen toxicity even when you can see yellow lower leaves. Nitrogen toxicity in flowering results in smaller yields and airy cannabis buds, so make sure to watch out!

Nitrogen toxic sativa buds Nitrogen toxicity in flowering will reduce bud size Nitrogen toxic marijuana plant in flowering leaves curl down Nitrogen toxicity - too much nitrogen - Cannabis growing problem

Note: During the last few weeks before harvest, marijuana plants starts pulling all the remaining nitrogen from her leaves as part of the bud-making process. This causes yellowing leaves starting towards the bottom of the plant. This is part of the natural flowering process and you don’t need to fight it. You may notice that marijuana leaves are yellowing in almost all pictures of marijuana plants with big buds that are close to harvest. You tend to get smaller yields at harvest from nitrogen-toxic plants with dark green leaves.

It’s Normal For Marijuana Leaves To Start Turning Yellow As Harvest Time Approaches, Don’t Keep Adding More Nitrogen!

Marijuana plant ready for harvest, notice the yellowing leaves, which is a natural part of the ripening processIt’s common for leaves to turn yellow towards the end of the flowering stage, no need to fight it!
I know a lot of marijuana plant problems can look similar, but now that you’re armed with the right information, you’ll know exactly what to do if you see Nitrogen Toxicity affecting your marijuana plants.

Nitrrogen toxicity - Dark, curled, claw or talon leaves -
Leaf Color:
Edges Appear Brown or Burnt
Yellow Leaves - Lower, older leaves
Dark or Purple Leaves
Brown or Dark Spots
Leaf Symptoms:
Upper Leaves / Newer Growth Affected
Lower Leaves / Older Growth Affected
All Leaves Seem Affected
Leaf Edges Appear Burnt
Leaf Tips Appear Burnt
Spots
Leaves Curl Under
Wilting / Drooping
Plant Symptoms: Weak Stems
Leaves Curl Under
Plant Wilting / Drooping
Other Symptoms:
Buds Not Fattening

7 Likes

@garrigan62 that was a great explanation on that Nitrogen issue I have it booked mark @beginner2d this is the best advice you could give in my opinion work with it maybe think about a flush and getting you beautiful plants ready for flowering and that’s were the phosphorus and potassium come in extremely handy and your plant will be looking for these nutrients at this stage stick with other mate and keep growing there is a lot off people on this forum that will get you through anything you might Encounter✌️

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@Johnzy81

Here is a chart on PPM
You can copy and past to you files and print it out and keep in your grow room…I have one in my grow room.

PPM–EC conversion Chart

Re-printed with Permission from Jorge Cervantes;

EC Hanna Eutech Truncheon CF
ms/cm 0.5 ppm 0.64 ppm 0.70 ppm 0
0.1 50 ppm 64 ppm 70 ppm 1
0.2 100 ppm 128 ppm 140 ppm 2
0.3 150 ppm 192 ppm 210 ppm 3
0.4 200 ppm 256 ppm 280 ppm 4
0.5 250 ppm 320 ppm 350 ppm 5
0.6 300 ppm 384 ppm 420 ppm 6
0.7 350 ppm 448 ppm 490 ppm 7
0.8 400 ppm 512 ppm 560 ppm 8
0.9 450 ppm 576 ppm 630 ppm 9
1.0 500 ppm 640 ppm 700 ppm 10
1.1 550 ppm 704 ppm 770 ppm 11
1.2 600 ppm 768 ppm 840 ppm 12
1.3 650 ppm 832 ppm 910 ppm 13
1.4 700 ppm 896 ppm 980 ppm 14
1.5 750 ppm 960 ppm 1050 ppm 15
1.6 800 ppm 1024 ppm 1120 ppm 16
1.7 850 ppm 1088 ppm 1190 ppm 17
1.8 900 ppm 1152 ppm 1260 ppm 18
1.9 950 ppm 1216 ppm 1330 ppm 19
2.0 1000 ppm 1280 ppm 1400 ppm 20
2.1 1050 ppm 1334 ppm 1470 ppm 21
2.2 1100 ppm 1408 ppm 1540 ppm 22
2.3 1150 ppm 1472 ppm 1610 ppm 23
2.4 1200 ppm 1536 ppm 1680 ppm 24
2.5 1250 ppm 1600 ppm 1750 ppm 25
2.6 1300 ppm 1664 ppm 1820 ppm 26
2.7 1350 ppm 1728 ppm 1890 ppm 27
2.8 1400 ppm 1792 ppm 1960 ppm 28
2.9 1450 ppm 1856 ppm 2030 ppm 29
3.0 1500 ppm 1920 ppm 2100 ppm 30
3.1 1550 ppm 1984 ppm 2170 ppm 31
3.2 1600 ppm 2048 ppm 2240 ppm 32

There are three conversion factors which various manufacturers use for displaying ppm’s…

USA 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 500 ppm
European 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 640 ppm
Australian 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 700 ppm

For example,

Hanna, Milwaukee 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 500 ppm
Eutech 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 640 ppm
Truncheon 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 700 ppm

6 Likes

Thank you very much @garrigan62 I really appreciate all off your help and input I respect you experience so much also :v:

NIce , thank you my good searchin friend :grinning:
haha, when is see chart what you found for me im like thinkin PRINTPRINTPRINT.
THANK YOU.

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i flush that ugly lookin girl and now shes feeling better.
TY 4 help :slight_smile:

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@beginner2d I would probably give the plant that you flushed plenty of time to dry out so that it will also use up some more off the nute in your soil before you feed again or water I’m delighted to hear that you’re little one looks better mate :v:

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@garrigan62 I did get it to go all blue and I hit the copy key but I don’t actually know where it has gone I didn’t get to make a file can anyone help @Countryboyjvd1971 @Shuggz could you please help me out here.