SmoknGranny’s Sneaky Gardens


Alright then. I took an oath, myself. I signed the same blank check you did, for up to and including the amount of my life. I defend that same Constitution, and everyone’s right to believe whatever they want to believe. And you’re putting words in my mouth by suggesting that I said anyone is my enemy. I find it pretty funny that you’re so adamantly voicing your views and beliefs, while it truly does not matter to me, one way or the other, what you or anyone else believes. But the really funny part to me is that we agree. :v:


Our California economy is besting 46 other states in the union and is the 5th largest world economy.


You’re right. So that really makes you wonder why California ranks 2nd to last in economic freedom? Behind New York of course…


Perhaps economic freedom doesn’t directly relate to economic prosperity. Higher taxes might pay for a better support system which lifts people into progressively higher income brackets through education, food and employee welfare, etc.

Or maybe not, perhaps it’s all weather related. I mean, it’s a good place to grow…



Economic freedom isn’t limited to taxes. It weighs things like taxes against government spending and how the residents benefit. And that prosperity depends heavily on the views of the individual. Like for instance the educational portion, depending on the report you look at California ranks middle of pack at best. Near the bottom on a lot of them for pre k-12.


That would be an interesting cross-section to look at: which states have the best taxes/freedom vs. benefits of said taxes ratio.


This conversation was started because @elheffe702 made a relatively accurate claim that conservative policymaking has been generally anti-cannabis to date. Decriminalization, medical access, and recreational legalization have been pushed primarily, though not exclusively, by liberal advocates. I’m sure we have all done the research into why it was made illegal in the first place - the holdouts on legalization still cling to the stigma manufactured in the early 1900s, and most of that was created by conservatives of that era.

My initial response was to the claim that the economies in “over-regulated, over-taxed liberal states” weren’t doing great. The data do not support that claim, and since the author of that statement seems to get upset about “spouting rhetoric”, I wanted to make sure the record was corrected, and also to do it in a lighthearted fashion with a nod back to the reason we’re all here - growing cannabis.

California is not the only one in the top 5 that would fall into this category. Oregon (38th on your economic freedom list) is the 3rd fastest growing economy. Washington State (32nd on the economic freedom list) is the fastest growing state economy. Meanwhile, North Dakota (12th in economic freedom) is the slowest growing economy, Alaska (5th in economic freedom) is the second slowest, and Kansas (16th) is the third slowest. South Dakota (4th) is the fourth slowest.

The economic freedom index for the states is calculated by the Cato Institute. The factors involved are here: They are heavily weighted toward libertarian idealism, which isn’t surprising considering the institute’s focus. There are factors which penalize states with high population areas. For instance 6% of the index is calculated based on the implementation of rent control. Obviously, states like Alaska, North Dakota, and South Dakota are not in a position to deal with affordable housing, whereas New York and California have to ensure that the people who work in a city can also live there. And I think the current economic results imply that this index is not correlated with economic success.

I do not subscribe to libertarian idealism or the myth of rugged individualism. I believe that almost all of our actions impact others - our neighbors, our family members, or the generations that come after us. My decision to grow weed outside means that it may infringe on some of my neighbor’s right to not have to smell it. I do my best to keep it in a corner that’s downwind, but winds can vary. I am also watering with well water. That aquifer takes a very long time to recharge, but I’m draining it for a recreational crop. I’m taking away water from future generations. Just look at what we did/are doing to the Ogallala aquifer, which will take 6000 (!) years to replenish.

I could go on and on. Freedom to have a fire in my fireplace? Reduces life expectancy for asthmatics and at-risk respiratory groups in the Central Valley. Freedom of diet? Increases healthcare costs by raising premiums for everyone, even those with healthy diets.

I really have no place for idealism at all. I don’t like to “believe” things just because I’m told to. I’m evidence driven, and if the evidence changes, I’m totally open to changing my mind on anything.

Back to the good stuff - on this note, I’m strongly considering doing a test with 6 clones - three of which I’ll stem split, and three of which I will not. I will then send the flower from all six to be tested for cannabinoid content. Can we get some evidence of this method and whether it really does anything? :smiley:


Well said.

I’d like a tag when you get up to that experiment! @dbrn32 and I were just mentioning a “lab garden” and how cool it would be to have the time to devote to something like that. I would grow giant mothers, and run sets of clones for each experiment to eliminate as many variables as possible. Then, I want to make a website like snopes, but for growing myths…we’ll call it :joy:


I’ve been talking about doing something similar, but calling it “SpliffBusters” :laughing:


:rofl: I LOVE it!


There are some pretty good YouTube channels that do things like that, but they always F up something I feel is pretty obvious, like using seeds.


Those are very good points, however let’s take the extremes out of both sides and compare states like Texas and Illinois? Illinois is not really any different than New York and California in terms of policy, they just don’t have the star power and entertainment income of the other two. The state is riddled with failed liberal policy and spending. Yet Texas, with no income tax and strong conservative policies seems to be doing fine. Perhaps that’s why so many are leaving California for Texas?


Your comparison is also unfair, as those are very different states with different demographics as well as geography. I spent 20 years in Texas before leaving for California, so I certainly can compare those two. :wink:


Something everyone misses, is that our President is neither. Sure he ran as a republican, but he is a businessman. I’m sure none of you noticed that he has brought the opioid epidemic to the forefront?

This is quite probably the first step to having MJ taken off the federal schedule and allowing research - the beginning of everything else we want.

Another thing missed is that every prediction of “WWIII”, “Armageddon” etc. have been proven blatantly false and nothing more than a continued attempt to bash Trump, no matter what he does. The ‘pundit’s’ have an issue with knowing so much about how things used to be, and as it goes away, so does their credibility and power.


The appointment of Jeff Sessions as the head of our justice department seems an odd choice if we want to further legalization. He’s been an outspoken opponent, and wreaked havoc in the cannabis-banking relationship with his public comments. One of the reasons I don’t yet have my tcheck cannabinoid tester…


You think that comparing Texas and Illinois is a further stretch than comparing California to Alaska, North Dakota, or South Dakota? I need some of that shit you’re smoking lol.


You pointed to the economic freedom index. I merely compared that to economic success. There’s a lot of goalpost moving here. I responded to one false claim with evidence and was presented with this index as a distraction from that evidence. So I did some work by looking at the top and bottom five in your referenced index, and that’s not good enough either.

Can we agree that the original claim was false, and that the Cato metric doesn’t correlate well with real measures of economic success, before moving the goalposts?


They are flooding my state, coming in droves faster than the immigrants are crossing the Texas border

The wall between Texas and California known as the Rocky Mountains isn’t tall enough lol.


He enforces laws, he doesn’t make them.


Yes he does, but he can steer policy and instruct employees what to prioritize and what to ignore.

I was born in California. Raised in California. Spent my entire life in California. And I can say unequivocally that the California index is wrong. Our state is a shit hole. The worst roads, highest pension liability, released felons, homeless people, etc.

When I was a kid in our small town I could walk anywhere. Not any more.

Might be a great place to live if you’re behind closed gates but not the regular shmuck. So, not buying what you are selling vis a vis California’s living conditions.

Just like working in a high cost country like Japan, employees are paid wages based on it being a “high cost” area.