Same seeds 2 different soils one not growing well

:laughing: yep I guess I had a brain fart, I don’t know what the :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: i was thinking


@Graysin covered the watts drawn. 30 watts per square foots is on the light side. Also, the P2500 uses LM218B diodes. These are older generation less efficient diodes compared to the LM301s in the XS2000. You will have to see how to organize the plants and where to locate the lights to provide the best coverage. Is it better to group the plants in the center of the tent and concentrate the light there. Or, divide the tent in halves and have a center aisle. I believe both lights says flower coverage is 4x2?

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@Graysin nice setup and the buds are lovely.

I have a 4x 8 grow room(I think inner dimension is 44x 72) I framed out in the naturally dark part of the basement, it worked out good as I used a bunch of building material left over from building projects in the past . I am growing 1/2 of it and have my watering supplies etc in the other half . the ambient temp in the basement ranges about 59-63 with rh of 40-50% so its easy to pull in coolish air when the lights are cooking. when the lights are off I have a 400w newair oil filled heater to keep it in the high 60’s.

I got the pro2500 and then realized I probably need another so when I went to buy another one the evil amazon algorithms had jacked the price up and the XS2000 had the magic micoswoft edge coupon and I had a discount codemaking so just $30 more than the price I paid for the original p2500!
the XS 2500 has a better driver and diodes than the p2500 , I saw a review (migro) of the pro vs the XS and he thought they were similar in performance- I don’t know if they have upgraded the XS since then but apparently it had less diodes so they run with more amps or something and it ran hotter than the pro. viparspectra rates the pro 2500 at 4x2.5 and the XS 2000 at 4x2

maybe I will put each gold leaf under a different light and compare the results…

I think I am going to have too many plants as they get bigger , one or two of the smaller one will be going away as presents but even now getting rid of the run off in the saucers is a pain in the ass, , that is one of the reasons I went with the dry organic approach as recommended to not water to a lot of runoff? I think I am going to build a big tray out of some left over dimpled plastic subflooring stuff and get rid of the individual saucers .


thanks for reading and sharing you expertise , many questions to come!

do I have to tag everyone each time or are you “tagged for life”?

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Some folks set topics that they have replied to as “watching” which means there will be a post count of new posts but it won’t necessarily flag them unless you respond directly to their post or tag them in. Best practice is to just chat as usual in your thread and if you need direct assistance, tag one or ten growers in to get some (semi) immediate help.

I will gently suggest looking into autopots. :grin::v:
Run-off free. It’s that or full hydroponic for me. Shop-Vac’ing runoff is for the birds (I say as I pull out my shop vac and suck up the runoff in my 3x6 tray)

One pan to drain will save time and effort for sure, I like to keep them separate for runoff diagnostics. These transfer pumps work really well.

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made a tray to make it easier with any runoff. I think have been overwatering , every 2-3 days when the topsoil gets pretty dry but I noticed when I took the saucers off the bottom 1/3 of the pots were still damp event though the topsoil was bone dry. I think I will go buy the lift the bag method from now on.

I was using some cheap plastic saucers , event though they had ridges a lot of moisture gets trapped.

next time I think I will lighten the happy frog with perlite and coco as well.

I am hoping not to have to deal with enough run-off to need a pump but will keep it in mind. its amazing how many 10-20$ gadgets can be useful when starting out.

looked at the auto pots and thought they would be in that price range but haha no.!
they look cool but is it for soil or hydro use. how does it meter out the water without having the soil continually wet?

Spacers is the key here a lot easier if all pots are the same size. Give the fiber pots a little underneath air too… @MeEasy make his out of spare pvc pipe and fittings kinda like a cross design lazy ass’d me bought my plastic ones from Amazon… Seen some people use wood blocks too.

Auto pots work great for folks who have to travel and use chem nutes… Don’t think they work to well for organic top watering as they are gravity fed with a float system and deliver to the bottom. Besides I want to look at my plants everyday :crazy_face:

Blumat Carrots Amazon

I did look at these top feeders probably work well once you get them adjusted, but I have plenty of time here…


@nmgeo , @MeEasy ,

thanks nmgeo, if it is something I can make at home using pvc pipe, duct tape and plumbers goop I am in my element! made these out of some pvc pipe they nestle in the nubs of the tray. even with the new trays I made which has nubs that stick out maybe 1/4 inch there was still a lot of moisture being trapped under the pots, these should help .

meeasy hope its ok to tag you and hope you are well. I tried to see what kind of pvc spacers you made but could not find. I think your thread with the 3 grows at once with the earth dust soil got me going down the path I am on.

I ph’d my filtered water it’s like 7.8 I know earth dust says not to ph your water bit I am tempted, they also say to keep the soil moist, I think easier to do if you have really light soil but with earthdust/happy frog, topsoil is dry and the bottom of the pots is still wet, hopefully the spacers should help, should I mist the top of the pot?

I realized I overlooked adjusting the room humidity as the veg progresses a target of 60% 2 weeks before flipping is good?

got rid of the humidifier and turning up the exhaust fan to 2-3 clicks, at night the rh goes way up over 80% at first light and there is a tradeoff between turning up the exhaust but this cools the room and then cranking up the heat more, at some point the heater will not be able to keep up with the air exchanges so I guess the answer is a dehumidifier, I have one we used to use in our old basement that I will put in I am thinking the heat it generates may make the heater not needed. anyone have a link to 4x4 or so dehumidifier?

did some trimming of the undergrowth and a few of the huge fan leaves just to get some better airflow as everything was getting really dense. I have been tucking some of the others and bending few branches to open up for the growth underneath

If the fans are not blocking any bud sites or for airflow issues best to just leave them?

found this guy under one of the pots, will spiders keep other bugs down or should I squash?

thanks for all the help everyone!

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Looks like a nice spacer idea… That spider is a wolf spider not going to hurt a thing and will eat other bugs…

I adore spiders in my garden. Not anywhere else. :v:

have been working on getting a good handle on the temp and humidity in preparation of going to 12/12.

bought the humidity down by getting rid of the humidifier and letting the pots get drier before watering, as well added a nice dehumidifier and have it set at 60% it has been barely running and temps with lights on running mid to high 70’s.

top dressed all the girls except the gift one with earth dust boost and have been bending sone branches and tucking and taking to open things up.

wondering what I am going to do when I can’t check on them every few hours when home? damn things grow bigger in between checks. so relaxing to just stop in, move a branch or two , tweak the fan a bit or just watch them grow.

any role for foliar feeding with kelp or something in the transitional stage between veg and flower or in flower stage?

anticipating a lot of fun in trying to keep them all about the same height as they stretch, to add to it one purple kush and and purple haze are like two weeks behind due to having to regerminate, will keep my eyes out for appropriate with buckets or pails .,

made watering wand s for each 5 gallon bucket with gravity feed gives a nice gentle flow and easier water the ones in the bak and wit the shut off valves less spill between pots .

was using an old outside coffee table for the buckets so went to Lowes to get some 2x4 x8 , lumber is crazy 8$ each, so just for approx 48x 14" frame e without the shelving 40 bucks. found this rack on clearance " fitness equipment rack" 16$

. a good deal so check your local Lowes if you are looking for something like this .


@MeEasy @CurrDogg420 @Graysin @Chasfitter @nmgeo

everything growing good and worked out little balancee between the heater, dehumidifier and exhaust fans to keep night and day temps high 60’s night to high 70’s days, and flipped to 12/12 a few days ago.

everything growing good and the regerms are catching up.

all the plants have been topped and having been doing some lst to open up and even out . once they flower I should lollypop?
wondering if I will have too many bud sites especially if I am light on the light wattage what do you guys think?

used some coated wires for some of the lst do I remove them once flowering starts?

if anyone has experience with earth dust or similar organics they stress keeping the soil moist . do I just water the top of the soil if it dry even though the bottom third of the pot is still moist?

Is there any particular good time or need to add in a dose of earth dust tea or foliar feed?


Lots of happy green in there

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The girls are growing right along and looking good :+1: I water everyday to keep the top moist might only be a cup one day or a gallon the next, The best way to think about it is on a scale of 1-10 1 being bone dry and 10 is soup the soil is happiest between 4 and 7 from the beginning to harvest. I don’t really do much in the way of tea or foliar spray. I do throw a couple extra scoops of boost on a plant or two if they act up but that’s about it. Come by and check out my thread I’ve been using Earth Dust for a couple years now and everything I have posted on my thread is Dust grown… click on Homer then again on my featured topic and you will be magically teleported over

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They’re looking great! :+1: Yes on the lollipop, I’d hit em good right now. Leave 8 mains +/- not many. Clean out all the extra toothpick branches off the main ones, leave the top 3, or go right to the tip and then grow them back.

The training wires and such will probably just pop off or come loose when they’re no longer needed.

I like to water top and bottom. I have a little one quart watering can with the long narrow spout, so it comes out slowly. I try to moisten the top of the soil evenly, and then I give some from the bottom and sort of see how fast she’s drinking. I go around to each plant and do this, and then start back at the beginning and give a little more depending on how dry they still look.

My moms seen me watering and her comment was that it seemed “really zen”. :pray:

Yes lollipop and open up to get some air and light in there now, then do 3wk some more then some at 6 wk looking good!

@MeEasy @CurrDogg420 @Graysin @beardless @Underthestairs @Chasfitter @nmgeo

thanks everyone, hard to tell from the pic but I removed all the growth from the lower branches to about 8 inches up and a bunch of fans just few days ago, a whole small pail full, . they grew in quickly!
back in the day we would be vey happy to smoke all of it, now it goes in the garbage…

thanks for the watering info me easy I got the idea to go the organic route from one of you threads.

so I guess I should extend the naked branch zone up another 8-12 inches? it kills me to remove branches that the girls worked hard to grow t , would love to clone but have no space for that at present.

if the tops of the branches are all at the same approximate height ( I think I only have like 4 -5 main branches but after topping and lst some good size side branches)beside for ventilation you still want to limit the number of tops so the plant devotes its energy to good buds on those branches?

assuming adequate nutrients and pot size Is the bud energy limited by the light available ? so say if you have an average ppfd of 1000 across the canopy you can have 12 buds/plant but if you have 700 ppfd 8 buds/plant?

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How many total watts are you running in there?

I have a viparpsectra p2500 and a viper spectra XS 2000 , iirc they are both 250 watts?

did some lollipop work a removed another small pail of leaves , from the pics maybe I should have gone a node higher?

most plants I have like 3 nodes with growth centers below the apex site as they flower will these lower areas form good buds and be kept or will the good bud sites form on new nodes higher up the plant?

thought you guys might like to see the plant that was the slow starter in the com soil that prompted this thread, she is really growing good and a beautiful plant

I think they look to be about right but they don’t look like they are done stretching so you might have to trim up a little more but I would wait n see… some stretch a lot others don’t