Nine weeks in and still having issues

@patchman I agree they look super bad tho a little better this morning. The only thing I changed, which I didn’t even think about, was using dehumidifier water instead of ro. The ph was lower than ro and had slightly higher ppm. Do you have anyone else I can tag? I really wanted to flip lights this weekend but can’t if they’re dying.

In the pic above the back right one was given 1.25g of ph’d water to get runoff numbers. It doesn’t look like its drowning… yet.

If you are growing in living soil you are not supposed to water to runoff. If something isn’t right I can always do a slurry to get pH and ppm’s. I have to say that I dont think this is a serious problem. @Covertgrower, @kaptain3d, can you help Joe out with his plant? He transplanted into its final pot and 2 days later they took a turn. If I can think of anyone else I will tag them. Actually @Hoppiefrog might be able to help you too. Good luck, peace…

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@Joe44 the pics from last night do look quite a bit different. Were last nights just before lights out? It’s normal for plants to rest at night and they will start to droop a couple hours before lights out. They definitely look alot better today, looking at the new growth It’s gonna be lite green and alot of the old leaves will probably not come back they might darken a little bit. I spoke to a friend the other day and she uses the stuff from NLS and she said she makes tea out of the concentrate here’s what she is doing

This is the NSL recipes I’m following;

Top Feeding
Put a very thin layer of Nature’s Living Soil on top of soil and water for a boost in nutrients and microorganisms. Apply the diameter of the widest branch or all the way to the container wall.

Compost Tea:
Add 2-3 heaping tablespoons of concentrate and one tablespoon of un-sulfured black-strap molasses per gallon of water and let stand for 24 hours.
[I also added some Plantonix seaweed extract to the mix]

Living Soil:

  1. Thoroughly mix 1 lb of Nature’s Living Soil concentrate for every 5 gallons of organic potting soil to make a ready to use Living Soil
  2. Make a small hole, about the size of a 16oz cup, and fill with organic potting soil.
  3. Plant and water from seed to harvest
    [This is the recipe I went with to surround the 3 gal original potting soil with in the larger 7 gal pots
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It was the suggestion from the maker of my amendment to do a mini flush to get the runoff numbers. Last time the slurry test didn’t give even close to the same number as to when I did a flush before but I probably didn’t do it right. I had issues with this calmag issue before but it was improving until I transplanted. I’ll just have to play around with some things and hopefully the death will stop.

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Yep that’s what I’d be doing later on when I think they need more but I just transplanted into a larger container with the living soil mix. Think the dehumidifier water could cause problems? Or even the calmag? I’ll maybe try a slurry test tonight before I water.

It’s not just before lights out but they def do drop more an hour or two before lights go out. That made me nervous at first but I found its normal. I’m getting a moisture meter to see where my water levels are at so I’m not guessing all the time. I dont think this should be that hard and all I’ve had is problems.

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I saw you said that you watered with over a gallon of water to get runoff. How much and often do you water normally? It’s a little confusing around here for new growers because there’s different ways to do things when you grow with different mediums. Watering living soil like you would a regular salt grow in soil will kill off the little critters in your soil that process the organic materials and feed it to your plants. Living Soil must stay moist but not soggy so it is better to water small amounts more often

When I was in 3g pots I was watering every 2-3 days about a quart or four cups. With this i was aiming to water a about a half gallon every 2-3 days which I was but maybe should have waited longer last time. Either way this brown spotting which kills the leaves looks like calmag issues to me and I’m not sure what to do about that if I’m adding it and the soil ph is right. Unless that brown spotting isnt really calmag. @MeEasy

It probably is a issue with the water. I don’t know the science behind it but I know that when you use RO or distilled water it will cause you problems with nutrient delivery to your plants. Calmag is supposed to help with this but I can’t tell you how much or when it’s necessary to add it. I literally have a hose with a inline filter I water from. I don’t check the ph in it or my soil unless I’m having a problem

I’m switching next watering to a similar setup for my future waterings. I’m also switching my new clones to a new dry amendment that does not require ph adjustment so its simply taking water from the tap maybe letting it warm up then water these girls. Hoping for more ease and better results.

They did improve from adding more air circulation too maybe. I’m wondering if some of my problems are coming from the sealed room. I might be able to hook up an online fan with a carbon filter and circulate air from the room within the room.

I fill 5 1 gallon jugs with water as soon as I’m finished watering so that the water warms up by the next watering it’s winter here so the water comes out like 45°

Oh yes you could be choking em a little they turn co2 into oxygen like we turn oxygen into co2. The same thing that happens to us with low oxygen happens to them in low co2. I have never seen it but it’s definitely possible

Another big difference in living soil it will take it a little while to readjust when it gets out of wack than reg soil where you flush out the nutes and replace em with new nutes, and even faster in coco, and faster again in hydro.
This style of growing is a little slower but the rewards are many better quality the biggest one

Two things stick out to me, the fact you have no turnover of air(sealed), yes people do it but it is more difficult to keep variables correct. Also try phing your condensate water and then wait an hour and check ph of it, I tried this and could not stabilize ph. There is a way with in line filter/cooler( google it) but IMO not worth it! I think once you get those two things correct you will see a difference!

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This is also true. Healthy microbe populations keep the ph in check. As someone else posted, a compost tea may be a better option.

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Thanks @Holmes. When you say variables you are referring to temp, rh, air flow and co2 right? Anything else I’m missing? Condensate from the deh? I’ve checked it right after and an hour or more after emptying and its 5.4-5.5. I’m just going to start using my filtered well water that has 275ppm and ph of 7.7 with ph down to 6.5. I’m going to get a moisture meter too just to be sure that’s not a big problem tho I dont think it is. I’m really thinking environment is the key here. My rh is set to 55 but I’m not sure what it is consistently at the canopy but I have a hygrometer on order. My temps are 78-79 but my leaf temp is around 84. I’ve raised my lights a bunch and might raise them more. Went out before lights out and they were looking pretty rough (fairly normal for just before dark) but the brown spots and fading of the leaf color between the veins was getting so much worse.I might be able to vent the room some but I’ll have to check some things first. Thanks again. I’ll check back in the next day or so too with more pics and a rundown of what I made changes to.



I have only ever watered them to runoff twice and that was because I was trying to find issues. I’ll try another slurry test to see if I can make sense of it. I would use a compost tea but I just transplanted them into 7g pots with the living soil mix. I’m not sure adding more is the answer except maybe calmag but I already add that. Weird thing is two or three of my plants show very little to no of the same symptoms. Two are really bad and the other two are kinda bad. Any other ideas to try? I’m not sure of my co2 rn because my meter is not working properly and I can’t calibrate it but it’s been pretty consistently high all on it’s own without supp.

Calcium issues, you could do a soil slurry test to ensure tds and ph are where they should be.

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@Nicky I did a “mini flush” and got 0.1 higher (6.6) in ph and 3300ppm tds. I know the tds is high just not sure what to do about it with living soil or if that could be causing issues. I do plan to do a slurry too just need to figure out how to do it because I’m not sure I did it right last time. I know I mix 2:1 water to soil but I’m not sure if I should adjust my ph or do anything else. If you’ve got a source with directions or you know yourself I’ll take it. Didn’t find too much online.

@Nicky @Holmes @MeEasy @patchman

I completed two slurries. Hereare the results and what came from my runoff numbers too.

Middle of pot includes older soil
Ph in 6.7 ph out 7.1
Ppm in 10 ppm out 422

Edge of pot new soil
Ph in 7.1 ph out 7.0
Ppm in 10 ppm out 508

Runoff ph in 6.5 ph out 6.6
Ppm in ~500 ppm out 3300 (increased from 2900 after ~15min)

Not necessarily sure what to do with this info other than maybe water with lower ph to try and bring it down? Why are they so drastically different?

The more I read the more I see I should implement a hybrid at the very least. Tomorrow night I’m installing an inline fan that will exchange air for 15min 4 times a day. My co2 is so high, tho my monitor doesn’t seem to be working properly so I’m not sure exact numbers anymore but I know they’re in the 3k ppm range. I’ve been reading that can cause major problems. Why the heck would the co2 be so high? I have nothing burning or generating co2 other than soil. It does seem to jump when I transplant so maybe. I will see how that affects things. Watered with ph’d filtered water no more ro. I raised the lights more too since leaf temps are in the low 80s with ambient temps at 78. Not sure how else to lower those temps but 6in didn’t change much temp wise. Well see tomorrow. If you’ve read this far thanks. If you have any other suggestions I would be so ever grateful!

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