Need a plant detective to assist issue I’m having

I’m having a similar issues with 3 different strains all used the same soil mix…my first grow and I used 5 gallon clay pots with about 30% coco coir, 20% perlite, 10% worm compost and 40% miracle grow potting soil (I now know not to use this as it has timed release fertilizer that is not under my control so to speak) I put a 1 inch layer of coco coir at bottom and then a sprinkle of worm castings and the rest was mixed up to fill the pot. I may not have mixed it up well enough as I think I have some hot spots randomly through soil based on multiple locations of soil PH readings and at multiple depths of about 4” and 7 inches probe depth after watering them.
My run off from this morning where as follows.
White widow extreme PH 6.46 EC 3820 (soil PH at 4” 6.2 7” 7.0)
Pinapple express PH 6.35 EC 3620 (soil 7.1/7.0)
Waikiki PH 6.5 EC 5200 (soil at 4” 6 to 7 needle was bouncing at 7” 5.7)
Soil PH meter I used the $12 3 way 2 prong from Lowe’s
Source water EC 500, was Ph lowered to 7.1
Temps 78 lights on 72 lights off humidity 50-60%
Just trying to figure out what deficiencies I have that are causing the brown spots on the middle leaves. Pinapple is the problem child so far. The other 2 have much less signs of this happening but I did notice the Waikiki having browning on new growth at tops today. This is new.

Any additional details needed let me know.
Any diagnose with the brown spots would be appreciated

Thanks

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Let’s see if we can get you some help :wink: @MattyBear @dbrn32 @Covertgrower

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Is there another thread going on this?

I did start a discussion on issues I was having about 5 days ago and I did what was suggested. I’m not sure this is the same issue and I’m not exactly sure of proper protocol here on this forum. Not sure how to link this post with my earlier post.

Based on those numbers alone you need to back off the nutrients. The two prong soil testers are worthless. You’ll need a digital one for accuracy.

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I remember seeing plants, and know that @garrigan62 was helping you. Pretty sure bugs were Identified there and that y po u needed to flush. But if you’re running ppm of 5200, 3600, and 3800 I’m assuming that didn’t happen? What about the bugs?

Thanks.
I do know my EC for Waikiki is too high and will get that one down. The others after deducting my source EC are a little high for the 7 week old plants. What I am trying to figure out is what’s causing the brown spots on the leaves and best course to correct them as I would like to go to flower in about a week but if needed can wait. May even transplant into 7 gallon pots? I’m just not sure and am trying to figure things out.
Much great info here and help from everyone.
Kudos
One day I might be able to give good advice on this sort of thing but as of now I’m getting up to speed…and another 20 years I might get close…lol

Can you recommend a good not too expensive soil Ph tester? I know what I have for that is weak. I also can test Ph using a slurry with reactive agents and test tube kit that again isn’t precise but gives a general read that along with the probe gives me 2 sketchy readings lol…

Looks like a cal mag issue. Are you giving them any?

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@Skydiver

Here check this out Very informative. Copy and paste to your files for future reference

Knowing What Your Plants Are Eating and How Much They Can Handle
October 20, 2016 by Devin Martinez
One big question growers ask is “Why are my plants suffering even though
I used all the right nutrients, feeding cycles, lighting cycles, and adjusted
temperatures and conditions to their absolute best?”
That’s because their pH and PPM levels are off, making it difficult for your
plants to eat. pH refers to potential of Hydrogen ions in your water, which
will determine if your water is too acidic or has too much alkaline in it.
PPM (parts per million) refers to the concentration of minerals and soluble
matter in your watering solution.
Correct pH and PPM levels are the backbone of any grow, and will be the
difference between a healthy grow and a huge waste of time and money.
pH Levels
Simply put: the right pH level will create an environment where your plants
can absorb nutrients quickly and easily, leading to a better harvest.
Nutrient-rich water is filled with elements that are helpful to your plants.
However, if those elements can be broken down properly those same elements
can harm your plants.
pH levels is important to understand because the right level will determine
the quality of helpful bacteria in your water that help break down elements,
helping the metabolic rate of your plants. How? In two ways:?

When pH levels are too low (pH level of around 5 of lower), heavy
metals like iron and aluminum change and can become toxic to your plants ?

If the pH level is too high (pH level of around 6.5 or higher)
elements like calcium and phosphorus can’t be broken down completely, which
will hinder the growth of your plants
This change in properties is due to how acidic your water is or is not.
You’ll want your plants’ nutrients to be a little acidic otherwise they can’t
break down, but too much acidity and your nutrients can become toxic.
So remember: pH too low= toxic to your plants, too high= growth decrease.
That’s why you want to have the perfect level of acidity in your water,
which will be around 5.5-6.0
Typical pH Levels ?

3.5 and below: Root Damage ?

4.0-4.5: Poor Nutrient Uptake ?

5.0-5.4: Good pH Level ?

5.4-5.8: Perfect pH Level ?

6.0-7.0: Acceptable pH Balance ?

7.5-8.0: Poor Nutrient Uptake ?

8.5 and Above: Root Damage

Note: Soil grown plants tend to need a little bit higher of a pH than hydroponics
because soil retains and releases certain elements to your plants at different times.
However, both hydroponic and soil pH levels should stay within the same optimal range
of 5.5-6.0 pH.
PPM Levels
PPM (Parts Per Million) refers to concentration of the particulates in your feeding
solution.
From minerals found in tap water to natural elements found in your nutrients, your
job is to make sure that the PPM levels in your water solution are on point so you’re
not under- or over-feeding your plants. While it’s an easy concept to understand on
the surface, it’s a little more complicated when you have to adjust elements.
Now, pH plays a huge factor in PPM levels because even though you may have the correct
PPM reading, some of the particles- and the concentration of those particles- can be
harmful for your plants.
For example, let’s say your plants need to be at a PPM level of 700. You mix your
solution and you get a PPM reading of 700 but your pH is around 4.5. That means that
the majority of the available food for your plants is likely to have lots of heavy
metals in it, which will quickly toxify the plant. You’ll need to adjust the pH level
of your solution to make sure you’re not toxifying your plants.
“But won’t that throw my PPM levels off because you’re adding particles to your feeding
solution?” It can, and that’s what’s so tricky about PPM and pH levels: When you adjust
one you usually have to adjust the other, which can be simple or a huge pain depending
on the water and nutrients you’re feeding your plants.
Common PPM Readings

These readings reflect the PPM your water should have at a given stage of growth
? Seedlings: 100-250 (nutrients aren’t really needed here, hence there’s not a
lot of particles needed)

? First Half of Vegging Cycle: 300-400 (this is usually after you transplant,
which still don’t require many nutrients)

? Second Half of Vegging: 450-700 (you’ll start giving your plants more nutrients
at this stage)
? First Half of Flowering: 750-950 (your plants will be eating more as they grow,
so they’ll be taking in more nutrients)

? Second Half of Flowering: 1000-1600 (this is when your plant’s eating the most,
especially if you give it additives)

? End of Flower, Entering Harvest: As close to 0 as possible (this is when you’ll
be flushing your plants, so you don’t want there to be a lot of particles left over)
Adjusting pH Levels
When it comes to feeding plants there’s two ways of looking at it: homemade or store bought.
Same goes with balancing your pH: you can either purchase a pH buffer from a store or you
can use ingredients you can find around your home or in the grocery store– but both come
with their advantages and disadvantages.
Homemade pH Buffers
? Advantage: If pH levels are low you can use a little citric acid or even white
vinegar to help bring your water’s pH down. When you need to raise your pH levels you
can use a little bit of baking soda in your solution and bring those readings back up.
This will cost you less than picking up a buffering solution.
? Disadvantage: The issue with using these solutions is that they don’t work for
very long. You’ll find yourself having to add a little lemon juice every other day, then
having to use a little baking soda to even things out. Moreover, we’ve also heard of
growers using these ingredients and seeing severe spikes in pH, which if not handled
properly and quickly and bring your grow to a halt.
Premade pH Buffers
? Advantage: Most hydroponic companies out there will have pH buffers, usually
called . They’re much easier to use than citric acid or white vinegar mixes. They’re
designed raise and lower the pH of your water while keeping your water’s pH levels
balanced for longer than it would be without them.
? Disadvantage: As we’ve always mentioned, easier usually means more expensive.
These solutions usually won’t cost you an arm and a leg, but they’re definitely something
you can’t simply make at home and will cost some money.
Adjusting PPM Levels
Before you start adjusting your PPM levels, you’ll first want to make sure your tap water
is ready to feed your plants. That means you’ll want to adjust the PPM of your base water
before you start feeding it to your plants Now, any time you add anything in to your watering
solution, you’ll be adding more particles in to it, so keep an eye out on your PPM levels at
all times.
? To rid your water of too many particles you can use things like a carbon filter or a
reverse osmosis machine to clean your water. However, many growers agree that most tap water
has helpful minerals (like calcium and magnesium) that actually help plants.
? During and after the vegging stage, your plants will want more out of their feedings
so filtering isn’t really necessary. That’s why we recommend only using filters at the
beginning of the plants life when low PPM readings are needed
? For a quick fix when PPM’s are high just add a bit of fresh water with a good pH
level and watch them drop. Filtered, pH’ed water is great when things get a little too
much in your reservoirs.
? When readings are low it’s usually time to feed your plants. When you add nutrients
to your feeding solution your PPM’s will go back up, and when your PPM’s and pH’s are in
balance your plants are going to be happy and healthy.
? Just remember that these readings need constant adjustment, so if you haven’t been
keeping a close eye on your plant’s PPM and pH levels there’s not better time to start than now.

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@Skydiver

This should help with the ppm

Start with 600 PPm for week 1
900 PPm for week 2
1200 PPm for week 3
if you go over 3 weeks veg
1500 PPM week 4
1800 PPM week 5 and hold there
at bloom I flush and go to 1000 PPM week1
1300 ppm week 2
1600 PPM week 3
1900 PPM week 4
flush weekly…VERY IMPOTANT
and hold there until last 2 weeks and ad your bloom enhancers

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@Skydiver
@garrigan62

Just a thought but could it be that the roots have reached the bottom of the pot and since you only have that layer of coco coir there they have reached a nute deficient zone?

The bugs ended up being springer ? Worms ? larvae and as far as I understand aren’t a concern.
I did flush the Pinapple.
As I understand calculating an acceptable range of nutrients one would subtract the source water EC which mine is 500 (250 ppm using the one scale that converts EC to ppm) then the current EC (using the Pinapple as an example of 3600 EC) so 3600 - 500=2900/2 1450 ppm when converted and my plants are just past week 7 from seed. Am I understanding the math correctly?
From what I have read using the EC number eliminated additional math that these devices use to come up with the ppm number so I decided to just familiarize myself with using the EC values / ranges for it.
If not please let me know.

As far as another posters question to me about what I’m feeding them I am using a compost tea blend (boogie brew) as my primary feed for them and I also have 5 or 6 down to earth products when needed and also am using ground up to a powder egg shells for calcium, some ashes from my fireplace (only burn hardwood) for well Pot Ash…cutting it with epsom salt and applying as top dressing before watering. I just recently had the light bulb go off regarding the testing of Ph and EC of source water or source plus feed and then measure the run off that follows the feed to see where I need to be next time. Took a while but I think that part (critical part) has taken hold!
I want to use natural organic nutes as much as possible

Also the coco coir layer at bottom could be an issue and I have been considering transplanting one or all 3 into 7 gallon pots based on the time they will be growing at a total of 16-18 week cycle. Not sure?
The roots reached the bottom of the pot about week 2 or 3 so they are there. Thought about the root wrap issue I’ve read about too and that is why moving forward will be using fabric smart pots and I have those ready to go in various sizes.

I solved my problem of the discolored leaves using a finger and a thumb lol.
Decided to go deeper into the rabbit hole and defoliate them to allow light to better penetrate the canopy and also (had been doing this a couple weeks) LST along with topping and some (not sure the name) bending and twisting some branches to go where I want them too and to weed out the week low count node sites in favor of areas with many nodes. Redirect the energy and get more light penetration.
Like what I do to my pepper plants etc in my garden in the summer.

I would think (correct me if I’m off base on any of this,) by reducing some vegetation that the plant afterwards would require less nutrients until it recovers and then starts to replace vegetation and then would ramp up its use of them.

Thanks everyone for your input on this.
Again feel free to tell me what your thoughts are whatever they may be…any guidance is welcome.

Sweet spot in soil is 6.5, but pH can safely range between 6.3-6.8.

PPM–EC conversion Chart

Re-printed with Permission from Jorge Cervantes;

EC Hanna Eutech Truncheon CF
ms/cm 0.5 ppm 0.64 ppm 0.70 ppm 0
0.1 50 ppm 64 ppm 70 ppm 1
0.2 100 ppm 128 ppm 140 ppm 2
0.3 150 ppm 192 ppm 210 ppm 3
0.4 200 ppm 256 ppm 280 ppm 4
0.5 250 ppm 320 ppm 350 ppm 5
0.6 300 ppm 384 ppm 420 ppm 6
0.7 350 ppm 448 ppm 490 ppm 7
0.8 400 ppm 512 ppm 560 ppm 8
0.9 450 ppm 576 ppm 630 ppm 9
1.0 500 ppm 640 ppm 700 ppm 10
1.1 550 ppm 704 ppm 770 ppm 11
1.2 600 ppm 768 ppm 840 ppm 12
1.3 650 ppm 832 ppm 910 ppm 13
1.4 700 ppm 896 ppm 980 ppm 14
1.5 750 ppm 960 ppm 1050 ppm 15
1.6 800 ppm 1024 ppm 1120 ppm 16
1.7 850 ppm 1088 ppm 1190 ppm 17
1.8 900 ppm 1152 ppm 1260 ppm 18
1.9 950 ppm 1216 ppm 1330 ppm 19
2.0 1000 ppm 1280 ppm 1400 ppm 20
2.1 1050 ppm 1334 ppm 1470 ppm 21
2.2 1100 ppm 1408 ppm 1540 ppm 22
2.3 1150 ppm 1472 ppm 1610 ppm 23
2.4 1200 ppm 1536 ppm 1680 ppm 24
2.5 1250 ppm 1600 ppm 1750 ppm 25
2.6 1300 ppm 1664 ppm 1820 ppm 26
2.7 1350 ppm 1728 ppm 1890 ppm 27
2.8 1400 ppm 1792 ppm 1960 ppm 28
2.9 1450 ppm 1856 ppm 2030 ppm 29
3.0 1500 ppm 1920 ppm 2100 ppm 30
3.1 1550 ppm 1984 ppm 2170 ppm 31
3.2 1600 ppm 2048 ppm 2240 ppm 32

There are three conversion factors which various manufacturers use for displaying ppm’s…

USA 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 500 ppm
European 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 640 ppm
Australian 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 700 ppm

For example,

Hanna, Milwaukee 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 500 ppm
Eutech 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 640 ppm
Truncheon 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 700 ppm

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Take a look at the ec/ppm data @garrigan62 posted. I’m not sure where conversion factor you are using came from, but I’m not familiar with it. I’m use to either getting a straight ec reading or straight ppm reading.

I believe the short answer on removing leaves is that the only thing that will do is make your plant appear to look better. It won’t change the condition that led to leaves looking bad or how plant behaves.

If I had to guess, I’d say the reason behind your issues is probably putting too much value into the readings you were getting from soil probe and not having solid ec/ppm data. I’ve never known those probe testers to provide useful data. And it seems your method for converting nutrient levels was a little off. I think if we get that stuff sorted out you will be in decent shape moving forward.

Thanks for the reply.
I have been taking liquid Ph and EC reading of my run off now for a week or more now. These readings are now what I am using to base my next water/feed.
Am I wrong to subtract my source EC reading (before adding nutes) from my run off values to determine my final EC reading. I read somewhere in the last week that you should do this when figuring things. Would like to know one way or the other and then I will know the math moving forward.
Also the post by @garrigan62 referenced a ppm of 1800 during late veg (week 5 and longer) so an equivalent EC reading of 1800 ppm is EC 3600 (3,6 in chart) so even without deducting the EC reading of the water from the tap the Waikiki is the only one out of range.
Please let me know where my math on the above is off so I can learn.
Do I subtract my source water EC (500) or ppm (250) whichever dataset one uses from my target for my feeding solution or from run off data or both to get it right?

Yea I think your right about the soil Ph readings I think they were a distraction to the more important run off data which is now my primary data to calculate the next move next time watering them.

As far as cutting out the affected leaves (and a bunch more) I know this doesn’t correct any deficiencies in either the levels of Ph in soil or nutrients but the ladies sure do look fit and trim now! And I juiced the trimmings with a couple apples…Mmm Mmm good…better than Campbell’s soup!

I’m only familiar with taking readings in ec or ppm, in which case no conversion factor would be needed in either. If you’re taking reading in ppm, just post it as ppm as far as I’m concerned. I also don’t believe there’s any reason to be complicating what you’re doing with trying to deduct your tap ppm. Especially if it’s not extremely high number. A lot of information is good, just more difficult to keep organized. The ppm of your tap is not something your adding but is there and some of the elements can be mobile too.

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Not to interrupt the conversation about EC, but did you do any adjustment of the PH, after adding wood ash? It’s a great natural source of phosphorus and potassium, but it’s extremely alkaline and this is not helping your PH if it’s not adjusted. @Skydiver

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I just placed 2 TBSP of wood ash per plant as top dressing with 2 TBSP of Epsom salt before watering

A good digital PH meter I would suggest would be a Apera PH20 for testing water . I would be cautious on top dressing anything at this point until you get a meter .

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