Molasses causing clawing?

Nutrients
1

Have an ILGM Gorilla Glue in 3rd week of flower. Today was a water day and we decided to add a tablespoon per gallon of unsulphured molasses along with 3ml per gallon Cal/Mag and a tsp of great white, which we’ve used during transplants prior. Following this same schedule of Fert, water, Fert has been working well up until this afternoon. About an hour after watering all plants got the claw. No more water was used today than any other day, no extra day of watering, all plants taking about a half gallon per before runoff.

So today’s clawing was a surprise. Anyone else notice this after a first addition of molasses? I doubt it’s overwatering as we’ve followed the same schedule since birth basically, Prior to watering they were in perfect shape. Obviously we’re going to hold off watering for a bit until this appears gone.

I can’t find anything posted anywhere about molasses causing clawing. Is this an oxygen deprivation thing? Any ideas on next steps if any? Should we flush a bit once the claw dissipates?

edit: a little more info. Water was ph’d after all additions made, down to 6.4 which is where the ph is every time we water. No other parameters have changed. Watered until minimal runoff. Plants are in happy frog. No flush has ever been done on these plants.

2

I’ve never experienced such a thing and I haven’t heard of molasses causing problems for others.

I’ve had plants get temperamental around watering time when in veg. Is that the case here?

3

Been on the same water/fert schedule since we started. Never had one go nuts after watering. I have to say we’ve been doing well with this schedule as we’ve never had an issue going to long or too much. Usually the response is a mild droop after watering that’s usually gone in a few hours. There’s 4 plants in the tent, 2 got hit hard, looking like severe overwatering. The other two show a mild droop but the first 2 look pretty poor at this point, about the top 3rd of the plants show the worst. The tsp per gallon was supposed to be on the low side for molasses, the cal/mag was on the low side as well and the great white shouldn’t have any effect at all. I’m wondering if the molasses is smothering the roots in some way.

This run has basically looked picture perfect up until now. I think trying to flush a bit would be a mistake at this point, if the roots are somewhat smothered and not getting O2 then watering won’t help other than MAYBE to wash off some of the molasses. OTOH I’m also thinking the plants should possibly react by creating more shoots to get to the O2?

4

Are you using unsulphered molasses?

5

yessir. Not organic but unsulphured regular molasses.

6

Sorry, man. I’m stumped. Tempted to write it off as a temperamental plant. More information might be helpful.

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A support ticket will help us help you. Can you please fill out a support ticket? Please include what type of water you are using.

COPY/PASTE the below list into your forum post.

Answer these simple questions the best you can.

If you do not know, or do not use something; Just say so; Or post

NA (non-applicable)

• What strain, Seed bank, or bag seed

• Method: Soil w/salt, Organic soil, Hydroponics, Aquaponics, KNF

Soil brand and type

• Vessels: Pots, Grow beds, Buckets, Troths

• PH of Water, Solution, runoff (if Applicable)

• PPM/TDS or EC of nutrient solution if applicable

• Indoor or Outdoor

• Light system

• Temps; Day, Night

• Humidity; Day, Night

• Ventilation system; Yes, No, Size

• AC, Humidifier, De-humidifier,

• Co2; Yes, No

If growing Hydro some additional questions:

-DWC? RDWC? Autopots? Ebb and Flow? Other?
-Distance of liquid below net pot (DWC)
-Temperature of reservoir
-TDS of nutrient solution
-Amount of air to solution

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1 Like
7

ehhh… never did a support ticket. Is that something I post in this thread or somewhere else?

never mind, I just took a second to read the whole thing. Let me get a picture sent over and I’ll post it up with the other info needed.

1 Like
8

lights just went off 15 minutes ago. I’ll get a pic tomorrow and add it to the thread. Until then:

• What strainL ILGM Gorilla Glue

• Method: Soil

Soil brand and type: Happy Frog no amendments

• Vessels: Fabric pots

• PH of Water, Solution, runoff: All watering and ferts ph’d down between 6.3 and 6.5 at all times

• PPM/TDS or EC of nutrient solution: didn’t check it this time as it’s just water and molasses
• Indoor: Indoor
• Light system: LED, Spider Farmer SF4000

• Temps; Day: 76-78, Night: 73-74

• Humidity; Day: around 52, Night: around 48-52
• Ventilation system; Yes: AC Infinity T6
• AC: some AC, Dehumidifier
• Co2; No

  • Water used: Well water when not doing Fert, RO when using Fert

Fertilizer: Fox Farm Trio, last Fert included beastie bloom, total PPM at that time was ~ 1000
at half the dosage per gallon.

A recap: Plants in week 3 of flower, looked perfect up until today’s water between Ferts in which 1 tablespoon molasses per gallon of water was added as was Cal/Mag at 3ml per gallon and a tsp of great white to the mix. Total water was 2 gallons which is what we’ve always done with no reaction and minimal runoff. This time, an hour after watering the top 3rd of all plants exhibited extreme clawing similar to major overwatering. All grown from seed, phenotypes vary. A couple plants seem to not have stretched as much as the other 2 and the buds are smaller than the other two as there aren’t as many strong colas going. Wasn’t able to get all colas stretching evenly. The two weakest phenos were hit the hardest with the clawing. Up until now there has never been clawing only mild droop after watering that disappeared within a couple hours. Plants have never been flushed, technically according to FF I’m supposed to flush before next week Fert.

9

Titleist, I’ve been using molasses for many years and I’ve never had any issues in veg or flower. And now I have implemented my special sauce with my molasses into DWC which I have a monster Vemon OG That wants to take up all of the 2 x 4 tent, more than half of it. But one thing I don’t use is Cal mag I don’t know anything about it I never used it never will so I can’t help you there.

1 Like
10

Doubt molasses did that, but the nitrogen in the calmag could. Most “calmag” are calcium nitrate based, and supply quite a bit of nitrogen.

2 Likes
11

Only really 2 things cause clawing nitrogen toxicity and overwatering(though you can get something similar with temps of 95° or higher)

3 Likes
12

Aha… so would the excess nitrogen cause clawing within the hour? Should I see some note burn then within a couple days?

I’ll get a call after the lights come on this morning, if they’re still clawed I’ll get a pic.

13

Are your leaves waxy and shiny then it’s probably nitrogen and nitrogen doesn’t usually cause tip nute burn

1 Like
14

Crisis averted. I hear the plants look amazing and the claws are gone. Still have no idea why this would happen during a schedule that’s been working for the last few months. No burn, no waxy or shiny leaves. I can’t believe the molasses “weighed” more and caused the leaves to curl down. I also read somewhere that adding molasses to a non-organic grow runs the risk of giving the mycobacterium the sugars it wants and cuts down on the plant transaction that occurs with the roots. The only thing organic in the grow is the big bloom. Not sure if the grow and tiger kill off the beneficials or not.

I’m thinking when we pull the plants that I want to take a look at the root structure and see if the fan we’re using to circulate underneath the canopy was killing off the roots on the sides of the pots nearest the fan. As I recall when I’ve watered I seem to get runoff on the side of the pots nearest the fan and thinking maybe the water was just running through to the bottom with no root structure to absorb some of that runoff.

At any rate, thanks for your time and information shared everyone. Great forum, most knowledgeable growers on the net willing to help. Thanks again!

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Titleist, see attachment

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image1624×750 143 KB

Hope this helps you with your grow, good luck

16

Sweet! Thank you! I had a chart I was keeping around but after seeing this one I went to that site and I like the photos attached to show the deficiencies on an actual plant.

Kudos sir and thanks!

Here’s the drawing I was using…

Deficiency Chart
Deficiency Chart812×814 162 KB

17

When is the last time you did a runoff TDS or flushed? FF recommends flushing at regular intervals as their product line tends to retain salts. As plant’s needs for N go down it will inevitably run into something like this.

1 Like
18

Still haven’t done a runoff TDS yet. Last time they were ferted the got half the FF schedule. I was thinking going half a week and a few good waterings in between and I wouldn’t have to do a mid flush. After this episode I’m fairly leery of doing a flush. I’ve heard horror stories and I’d rather not go through that if it’s a chance. I’m thinking 1000ppm rest of the duration once a week with 2 waterings in between, hoping I can get through the last 6-7 weeks without it. Although I guess that’s how it goes sometimes, everything looks good then lockout or a flush and the plants nosedive.

If I were to do a mid flush the plants, according to FF we’re at that point in the grow, week 3 then flush before week 4. I do have some sledgehammer I could use if you think it’s necessary.

Up until the switch to 50% feedings, they received 3 100% FF nutrient schedule with no issue. That’s when I brought it down to 50% in week 3.

While I understand how to flush and with what, is it common wisdom to do the flush, then immediately do the next Fert so the plants aren’t left hanging for a week?

19

Yes, you really need to flush when using FF trio nutes maybe not as much as they recommend maybe 2-3 times in the grow

20

The fan could have potentially done this. Do you happen to remember if leaves further from fan weren’t clawing or not as bad?