Looking more closely at my charts the bumps in temp on the left side of the chart during lights-on is probably not the door heater, but the house heater affecting the temps there. The door heater can run during lights-on, but I don’t think it was there. Also the difference in how the RH is resolving between lights-on & lights-off is probably more likely due to my humidity controller sensor being over/ near the door heater which is running mostly when the light is off. I’m probably going to leave it alone & keep an eye on everything because overall the numbers aren’t terrible & the plant seems to be heading in the right direction. I haven’t taken a lights-off leaf temp reading recently yet, but VPD might be a little weird because if my offset numbers are where they have been in the past ( -10f lights on, -1f lights off), it might be higher during lights-off, but still in a decent range during lights-on, & not wildly swinging. I’ll see about increasing it during lights-on later on once the plant has taken off a little more. But for now doing some quick math on the Leaf VPD calculator, I should be running between .6 & .8 lights on, & .8 to .1 during lights off, leaf VPD.
Interesting observation: I’m getting warmer air temps below the canopy during lights-out vs. lights-on. (Lights-on is 9pm to 9am on the graph)
Sensor below screen-level:
Sensor above screen-level:
Due to the door heater. Not really sure if this is a problem, but I thought overall the heater might be running too hot/ more often than needed, so I reduced the heater controller target temp by 2f (Can be seen if comparing the left side of chart to right side of chart, both lights-off). Will be interesting to see if the light can still carry the lights-on temps/ how much the heater was carrying. It’s been a little warmer again for the past couple days & I might have to turn it back up once it gets cold again & if the cab has trouble keeping up.
I started taking lights-off leaf temps yesterday. My light timer is set “off” for 12 hours & 1 minute, so if available I’m going to test the lights-off temps within that last minute before lights-on. The cab will be doing whatever it will be doing, so that may affect readings. I only have a minute to test, so if it’s right after the exhaust fan has run or the heater is on or off, it will be what it will be. Yesterday they seemed to be 5 to 10 deg cooler than air temps, which I wasn’t expecting, since they had been consistently running -1f throughout the summer.
Tops along the front edge of the screen/ above the heater might be stretching a little faster due to the heater. Although they ran into the edge of the screen early & have been growing up for a little longer than some of the others. I’ll watch the node spacing to see if it’s different everywhere else.
Did some minor defoliation & pruning above & below the screen. I plan to continue to do minor work until it grows up a little more, & then I’ll probably do a more intensive stripping in a couple weeks.
Plant has been drinking & eating well, about 24 flOz & 100ppm daily.
Bucket has been hitting pH 6.5, ppm 300 at lights-on, & I’ve been taking it to 400ppm & 5.8 - 6.0 pH when topping off daily. Going to try & slowly increase that so it starts running from 400 to 500ppm. Addback has been around 800 to 900 ppm.
Still on “Week4” nute ratios, & stopped adding superthrive at the flip.
Planning to run “Week4” ratios for the first two weeks after the flip, then picking up at the 1st or 2nd week flower ratios, or maybe it was supposed to be the 3rd week, I forget exactly.
Also added a 1" insulation shield to block the res from direct heat from the door heater.
Replaced some batteries & have all my Thermpros going:
(Lights-off is 9am to 9pm on the timelines)
Cab wall above screen/ Around top of canopy:
Under screen by heater (Probably will turn the heater target down another degree or two, at least until it gets colder again.):
Did some very minor defoliation across the tops, mostly in between the tops on the left side. I have a fiberglass stick that I use to comb through the leaves.
I checked leaf temps right before lights-on again, & they seemed to be running -5f to -7f cooler than the air temps again, when I checked.
Lights-on leaf temps are running around 10f lower than air temps, even lower right after the exhaust fans run.
Weather for the past couple days has been unseasonably warm & humid, & the anti-humidity fan has been cycling more often. But the lights-on air temps in the box fell a little compared to yesterday & the past few days, most likely due to the lower setting on the door heater, & maybe the anti-humidity fan cycling more often. Weather has been flip-flopping this winter, it should be cold & dry again soon, so we will see what everything does then. Also I should be switching to the bigger light any time now, so I might have to adjust things again due to that. But the plant has spread out enough to use the better coverage along the edges.
It drank 1/2 gallon yesterday, & 3/4 gallon today, & it knocked down the ppm by 100ppm & 150ppm respectively. 3/4 gallon addback @ 900 ppm brought the bucket up to 500ppm, we will see if that is too much. pH has been hovering around at 6.1.
The door heater is almost certainly causing some excess transpiration at least along the leaves directly above it, & some stretch across the tops along the front edge. The tallest top is up front in the middle & couldn’t be more in the way. Perfect!
Removed some more small stuff directly around screen-level. I had a decent pile after today, but there’s still more to go over the next days.
Just one chart today, from the sensor under the screen near the heater. Lowering the door heater target 2f helped with the heat temps along the front of the screen during lights-off. The under-screen sensor on the opposite side topped out at around 77f, & the one near the heater topped out at around 84f instead of 88+.
Overall the cab max temp at lights-on also fell a couple degrees.
The plant went from moving 3/4 gallon to 1/4 gallon in a day. I think right now it should probably be moving from 1/4 to 1/2 gallon a day depending on conditions, but 3/4 was too much for where it is growth-wise right now, imho.
Hoping it will help with getting the stuff along the left & back outer edges going upwards more quickly, & maybe slow down the taller stuff on the opposite sides. Hitting the front & right edges of the screen early when scrog training might be more of an issue than I thought because that front right quadrant is much taller than the rest of it. Plus the heater is probably causing the stuff along the front edge to stretch a bit also. Hopefully the left & back edges still might catch up a little better over time.
I have the Photontek at 75% (around 250 watts), & it looks like it might run cooler at the canopy than the Kind at 100% 220 watts, but I need to let it run for a while to see. It’s a little higher up than the Kind was. PPFD is a little higher overall by about 100, running at around 750 at the highest tops near the center, 650 highest tops on the sides, & around 550 along the lower stuff. So around 32 to 23 DLI respectively, which should be fine for now, & I’ll start grabbing leaf temps once it stabilizes. One other change I made was to increase the oscillating fan-on time from 45" to one minute, & decreased the fan-off time from 3’30" to 3 minutes. Also I increased their fan speeds from low to high.
Defoliated a lot from the bottom & started to move up some of the taller stems, & I still have to go through the left side tomorrow. I’ll do a heavier strip further up the stems in a couple weeks.
Probably time to reposition a Thermpro to keep up with the tallest tops.
PPM was down 100 before feeding. 1/4 gallon addback at around 950 brought it back to 475 to 500. pH raised a little 6.3 - 6.4, so I added back & then adjusted down to around 5.9.
Todays chart showing the lights-on temps with the Photontek on the left. High temp was a little cooler there than before by about 3f. This is from the higher sensor on the back wall. Overall its running a little cooler since the light switch & turning down the heater. Not shown on the chart is where I forgot to turn the heater back on for a couple hours after doing some work on the plant after lights-on, & it looks like it adds anywhere from 8f to 15f to the lights-on temps depending on where I’m reading, a lot more than I thought.
I moved one Thermpro sensor from under the screen to the left wall, to be even with the tallest tops. I might move it to the front corner where it will be over the heater, but want to see how it reads where it is first. Also, the plant is growing on an angle from the front right corner down to the back left corner.
Defoliated some more, mostly underneath the left half. I’ve been finding some old small shrivled white premature seeds in some of the pre-flowers across the bottom areas. I don’t think it’s hermed, I think there is still some pollen from the last plant which had hermed floating around. Personally I know I can’t get rid of all of it & was sort of expecting to see some turn up. Hoping whatever is left has died off by now, & also that this one doesn’t herm.
It drank somewhere between 1/2 & 1/2 gallon yesterday. I cut the addback to 500ppm, since the bucket was sitting around 450 before addback & I want to run it around 450 to 500 now. I might bump it up to 550 tomorrow. pH was around 6.1 to 6.2 before & after addback so I let it ride.
Last res change was at flip, & I’ll start looking for crashing pH to signal time for another res change.
Pruned & defoliated a lot from the lower areas of the taller stems.
A lot of the stems near the heater seem to be stretching more due to the heat. There are still some lower sites & shorter stems throughout the right side, & I’m waiting to see if the stuff on the left & along the back will grow up a little more before I go in there & start pruning the lower foliage some more.
Heat readout under the screen in front of the heater has been creeping up over the past couple days. (The dip in temp at 7:30am near the end of lights-on was me checking leaf temps.) I think the defoliating will help let the heat flow through & dissipate better. I also lowered the heater setpoint by 1f. I might have to address or change some thing(s) with the heater set-up. Kind of depends on how much those front stems stretch. Looks like they might go crazy, time will tell.
I moved a couple Thermpro sensors around to keep up with the canopy at different levels. It’s still growing up on a slant, but some stems throughout the canopy are shooting up to be a little more even. I also used some training wire to push some of the stems around the edges off of the walls a little bit.
Plant is drinking between 1/4 & 1/2 gallon daily, & eating well. ppm hung around 500 between feedings, & I bumped up the ppm to 550 when topping off today. pH has been cruising around 6.1 6.3 & I’ve been able to leave it alone mostly. Leaf VPD is anywhere from decent to high - it depends on where I’m testing the leaf temps. The slanted canopy & the heater don’t make it easier to test, & I’m still piecing together a picture. But to give a basic idea for now, lights-on & the hottest leaves seem to be running at around 78f, & the coolest at around 65f to 68f, & the offsets might be anywhere from -7f to -15f respectively, RH will be higher on the lower stems, lower on the higher stems. Plus a lot depends on when & where I test.
I still like holding the Week4 Veg ratios through the first two weeks of flowering. I learned of & did this back in the day, & tried it again when I started growing again at the top of this thread, then I tried just following the factory schedule for the second grow above & I could see the plant struggling for N early in flowering. Back to the 2 week hold for this one & it looks good so far.
I forget what I used to do exactly for ratios after the two week hold, so the feeding plan for week 3 of flowering will be to res-change to go to “Week1 Bloom” ratio next week for the plants week 3 of bloom. Then I’ll start feeding that bucket “Week3 Bloom” ratios as add-back & I should end up back on the factory schedule (GH Flora 3-part Weekly Light) from there, because factory Week 4 & 5 bloom ratios are the same as their Week3 Bloom ratio.
Tomorrow will be the beginning of the third week of flowering, planning to do a full res change to change the nute ratio. Also will aim for 600ppm.
Been tinkering with my RH controller last night & this afternoon, added a little RH because the leaves on the tallest tops were starting to look a little dry. Raised the RH target by 2%, then raised the dehumidification target from +5% to +10%, & then later ended up bringing the RH target back down but leaving the dehuey target raised to +10%. Also I did this since I knew that I wanted to do some pruning & defoliation today. The box picked up a little air temp after this because it now has slightly longer periods between the dehuey fan coming on. I also moved a couple Thermpro sensors to be more even with the canopy levels, & I’ll be getting some updated leaf temps later tonight.
(Lights-off @ 9am on the charts)
Under Screen by Heater:
Lung Room Ambient:
I grabbed some leaf temps right before lights-on.
Temps lower canopy: Air 71f, Leaf 65-68f
Temps mid-canopy: Air 72f, Leaf 68-70f
Temps top-canopy: Air 74, Leaf 70-72f
Haven’t had a chance to check what the RH was to get those Leaf VPD numbers yet. They should be a little slower.
Roots: (One broken one wrapped around the air hose, not sure what that is doing there.) pH 5.9, ppm 600. About 8oz over-filled, to use the last of the 'Week4" nutes.
Before doing some more pruning:
After: (Still more pruning to do, but I should be done by next week.
PPFD across the tops is anywhere from 550 at the lowest & dimmest areas, to 1000 at the tallest top. (Non E-Par meter)
This is a absolutely phenomenal journal brother, blows my mind! The coloration of the one in that last pic is stunning!
Thanks, & I’m still shaking things down & making improvements on my cabs. I made a similar thread about my seed/clone cab if you want to check that out as well.
I suspect that the purple color is most likely due to the in-rush of cooler air whenever my cab does an air exchange. It’s winter right now & you can’t really tell on my Thermpro readouts, but some of the leaves get pretty cool after an air exchange. I’ve tested some of the lower ones near the intake to be as low as 60f to 62f right after an air exchange.
Time for a res change so I figured I’d show how I’ve been doing my res changes. I use my circ pump in the res to pump out by blocking the discharge & letting the water run out of a hose in the venturi. I place the pump at the bottom of the res, without the pickup tube. This takes about 20 minutes to clear the res.
…Smoke a Bowl While You Wait…
There are about two Solo cups worth still in the res, & I take a couple more minutes to pull that out with a turkey baster.
Then I use a hand pump to put fresh solution (around 600ppm, 5.9 to 6.0 pH) into the res.
Also I ran some numbers through the Leaf VPD Calculator.
I’ll list the median numbers to keep things more simple.
Lights Off Leaf VPD:
Lower canopy: .3
Middle Canopy: .6
Upper Canopy: .7
Lights On Leaf VPD is about the same, except for the upper canopy more or less doubling to around 1.4. That’s a good number but most of the plant is lower down & not running as hard. The taller stuff (which is also mostly hanging out above the door heater) is on the line of too hot, too dry, too much transpiration.
I’m still running the higher RH that I set after pruning the other day, but last night I peeled off 1% from the dehuey target number, so it’s starting to spend less time in the higher humidity. I’ll keep doing that until it looks like it gets too low or causes other problems. By dropping that dehuey target, the cab will cycle the dehuey fan more often & I can end up trading leaf temp (which I might not want to lose) for the lower humidity. But I still can end up with higher Leaf VPD throughout the cab though. Also I can end up short-cycling the cab where it is constantly humidifying & dehumidifying back & forth. This can give a more even & tighter result, but the leaf temps might be too cold too often, depending on the intake air temp.
One thing I’m thinking of doing is to replace my 250w door heater with the smaller 100w model. It would be about half as tall, so it would be farther from the screen. Then I’d probably want to add a second 100w model on the opposite side of the cab to even things out a little better in hopes of avoiding what is going on now with the stuff near the heater stretching more than the rest of the plant. I’d probably want to relocate the electrical box, or the second heater on the back wall would be covering it & heating it. Also not sure if I have the space to fit two plus insulate the bucket from them, but I think I do.
Lowered the tallest stem slightly by adding a couple bends:
Also lowered the light slightly to increase intensity on the shortest stuff. They are getting minimum PPFD. The tallest stuff is getting soaked but still looking ok. I thought about shading the tallest tops along the front & turning the light to 100%, but probably won’t unless the stretch on the front stalks gets too far out in front of the shortest stuff:
Also lowered the “Dehumidify” target by one more percent to 8% above the controller target, & I think I’ll run it here for now.
Tallest Tops (Hottest leaf temps measured only 80f):
Under screen by heater (I’m going to order two 100w replacements, which should work better overall on opposite sides in this cab):
pH ran up to 6.5 a couple days ago, so I brought it down to 5.8, & it was at 6.2 today, so I let that ride. PPM running 550 to 650, & I should be wanting to bump that up soon. I kept the addback ratio the same since changing the res, I’ll change the addback ratio at the end of the week to start catching back up with the factory schedule.
Pruning & defoliation coming up by the end of the week, mostly going to be removing some lower budsites, & short tops not in the open.
Tomorrow will be the beginning of Week 4 bloom. I did some more pruning & defoliation underneath. Still could do more, but for now it should be ok. I don’t want to beat her up too much at once in case she wants to hermie like her sister did. Also in some pics it looks more congested than it is, due to the canopy slanting downwards as it goes back. I also raised a couple Thermpro sensors & the hot air exhaust fan sensor to keep up with the canopy.
I also made two adjustments to the humidifier controller & setup to see if I can reduce average RH a little more. I lowered the ‘humidify’ target to -4% from -3%. Now it won’t activate the humidifier until it falls 4% below my main target setpoint. A few times already it has ‘skipped’ humidifying & didn’t hit the humidify setpoint after a ‘dehumidify’ air exchange, & just drifted back up on its own.
Also I put a timer on the humidifier circuit, so it can only operate during lights-on.
The tops have mostly grown into light that should be strong enough for 12/12, although some are still in some weaker light. The tallest one is around 1100 1200 ppfd, most of the stuff in the center & of medium height are in around 1000, & even a lot of the shorter stuff is in at least 600 to 700. Probably the worst is the short stuff in the front left corner which is 500. Also my meter is not e-par, so they are all a little higher in reality. Also these were taken ‘door-open’. I ordered two 100w stinkboard heaters to put on the front & back wall to spread out the heat a little more evenly for next time. Also I think my heater controller has some sort of timer with multiple setpoints available, so maybe I can see about setting a lower target during lights-out.
Tonight I used the last of the ‘Week1/2 Bloom’ addback, & will move to the ‘Week 3/4/5 Bloom’ ratio for my addback. The plant is transpiring almost a gallon a day now. The res moved slightly up to pH 6.3 before addback tonight, so I knocked it down to 6.0 after addback. It was also up on PPM to about 750 before addback, so I brought it down to about 675 ppm after addback, which is still pushing it a little. This will probably be around the max PPM for her, & it might even be getting a little high if it’s hitting 750 right before add-back. I will see how she looks tomorrow. This was the last big hit of nitrogen for her, it will be tapering off after this.
Wonderful closet! I’m growing in one as well, although not quite as elaborate as yours, but does the trick pretty well. Plants are trained beautifully, well done! Love the descriptive posts too, it’s cool to be able to read everyone’s grows, see the different mindsets and room set ups.
Thanks for posting
Thank you, I’m glad that you are enjoying it.
Although the most recent plant is not trained ideally. I’ll be going back to topping & bending it over next time. Also will hope to center it a little better. Plus going to smaller twin heaters on opposite sides should help to even things out stretch-wise during the colder times. That is one drawback of this space, is that two of the walls are exterior walls & so the outside temps affect it. 1/2" pink board slows it down a little.
The plant has been transpiring more & more water over the last couple days (around a gallon per day, maybe a little more) & as a result leaving too many nutes in the res (PPM 800 before addback), so I topped off early after nearly 12 hours & brought the PPM back down to 600 to 650 after that add-back, & again for tonights addback, & I still might have to lower that a little more. I also lowered my door-heater target temperature by -2f to see if that slows down transpiration a little. This will probably take some temp out of the air & leaves overall which I don’t want to do, & I’ll be watching the lowest temps of the lower & mid canopies to see if they get too cold during lights-off. (I just adjusted the heater, so the results aren’t on the charts below.)
Thermpro readouts from yesterday:
Highest Canopy: (Lights-on Leaf temps 74f to 80f, lights-off Leaf temps 68f to 73f )
Mid-canopy: (Lights-on Leaf temps 68 to 72f, Lights-off Leaf temps 67 to 70f)
Lower canopy: (Lights-on Leaf temps 60 to 68f, lights-off Leaf temps 60 to 68f)
Under screen by heater:
I pulled the tallest top away from the door by adding another guywire. I’ll also probably try to pull the short one in the front left corner more into the light. Some of the stuff in the lower front left area will probably get pruned eventually.
Some Thermpro data after having turned the door heater target down -2f. It’s drinking less than before, but still drinking a lot, & I think I’m just going to top off the res twice a day from here on out. Otherwise I’m going to have to go to weak add-backs &/or run up the water level too high to keep the PPMs from ramping up too much. For the past couple days - with addbacks twice a day - I’ve been able to run it at 650 after addback, to 800 ppm before addback, & it seems to be handling that. I also made one small adjustment to the addback mix by doubling my Si, & halving my CalMag.
Temp-wise, the box is cooler than before. I might put it back if going to addbacks twice a day & if I end up raising the lights. I grabbed some new lights-on leaf temp readings early this morning, & they are cooler than I want them to be. I forgot to write them down, but the lowest tops were in the low 60f s, middle tops high 60f s, highest tops were in the low 70f s, iirc. I’ll be able to take more readings in the future.
Under screen by heater (The RH tracks more evenly here across lights-on & lights-off because the humidity controller sensor is below the canopy.) :
Starting to see signs of second bud-set:
I moved that front left top closer to the center:
Wondering how much stretch is left & if I’ll need to raise the light. I’ve been thinking about adjusting it & turning it up to full power at the end of this week anyway, to give everything a little more light.
Pruned a few things, mostly along the front area.
Seems like it hasn’t stretched much at all over the past couple days. But it might start a second stretch over the next week or two, at least a little bit. The tallest top bud has been 3.5" away from the light for the last couple days.
It’s been 10 days since the last res-change, & the pH ran down to 5.8 from 6.1 within the day yesterday which I take as a sign to start thinking about changing the res, so I bumped it back up to 6.2 this morning & it was holding at 6.1 when I checked this evening. I’ll check/ adjust once more this morning, & I’m going to do a res-change tomorrow evening to cover the next 10 days remaining on this nute ratio.
Caught some warmer lights-off Leaf temps today at 73f lowest tops, 74f middle tops, 76 tallest tops.
Also caught some cooler lights-on Leaf temps last night at 64f lowest tops, 68f middle tops, & 72f tallest tops.
Thermpro charts (The three ‘tops’ sensors have been moved up slightly since last time.):
Under screen by heater:
Different angle from a couple days ago:
Changed the res yesterday with solution at the same nute ratio as before & at 650ppm, pH 6.2.
Tested the new 100w heaters to make sure they were good to go. I won’t be able to install them until this plant is out of the way. These run a little cooler than the 250w version by 10 to 15f, & are physically smaller. They do stink also. It seems to lessen with use.
Tallest tops: (I took some Leaf surface temps at around 1:30 AM & the tallest leaves were 77f.)
Chart above, zoomed in. The wide temperature wave is the door heater operating. The narrow waves are the humidifier & dehumidify fan operating:
Mid-height tops: (Leaf surface temps 71f)
Shortest tops: (Leaf surface temps 68f)
Under screen by heater:
Lung-room ambient: (I accidentally changed the main thermostat from ‘auto’ to ‘heat’ yesterday, so the main heater was running more than usual. I didn’t notice until I saw the chart.)
Waiting to see if it stretches up any further, but it seems to be done for the most part. I still may have to raise the light within the next week or two, but then I could turn up the power to gain 100 or 200 PPFD. I’d rather leave it be, as the cab is fairly well balanced now for the plant growing on a slant, & the extra heat & light might throw things off.
I’m somewhere in the middle of the fifth week since flip. I made a couple adjustments by adding back one degree to my door heater controller target temp. (I had subtracted two degrees earlier in the week.) Also, I set the built-in timer to run that setting during lights-on, & three degrees less during lights-off.
Shortest tops (Flatline = had to change the battery):
Under screen by heater:
It’s made more flowers, but I hope it makes more flowers:
Back row full of under-achievers. Typical!
I’ve been letting the PPM run between 750 before add-back, & 650 after add-back. pH has been moving around 6.0 - 6.2.
I’m still deciding if I want to try raising the light fixture & increasing the intensity for a gain of around probably around 100 to 200 PPFD, depending on where on the canopy I would be measuring. I’ll give it a few more days & decide later.
Here are some Leaf temp numbers since making the past few adjustments over the past two or three days:
Lights-on: Low tops 68-70f, Medium tops: 71-72f, Tallest tops 77-79f.
Lights-off: (I’ve only recorded this once since turning the heater down for lights-off.) Low tops 66f, Tallest tops 71f.
Took some PPFD readings today & I think I’m going to leave the light where it is & not turn it up, unless I have to raise it. The plant seems to have stopped upwards growth for the most part. The tallest tops are in 1200+, most of the rest of the plant is in 1000+, & the shortest stuff is around 800 except for the corners which are a little less. This is with the door open so it’s losing a little because of that, & I have a non Epar meter, so it’s not measuring the far-reds.
Soon will be adding a RapidLED UVA puck, & will probably mount it near the center of the Photontek & will try to run it 12/12 along with the main light, or less if necessary.