LED vs HPS/MH H.I.Ds


#41

Judging by the part number of the light, you are probably exactly right with 150 watts.


#42

I figure with my grow space, I can add a couple of small cfls for lower growth later on.


#43

Going to LEDs really helped my heat and temp control


#44

I use 1000w MH/HPS. I just ordered some new reflectors from HLG yesterday. I was talking to the man at HLG and he told me the advantage of LEDs is that they use less electricity, and don’t put off as much heat.


#45

Absolutely LED would have more yield per watt seeing as how a 600ish watt LED is equivalent to a 1000w HPS. Problem is, you save money, but don’t get BETTER results. I don’t know much at all about lights, but I do know that they base everything off what a HPS does. I would like to see a grow off between a HPS and a LED. I don’t understand why they don’t make them better, instead of equivalent to.


#46

@Grandaddy013 not sure what led light you’re using, but I’m not using an amazon special.
I’m using a
Rapid LED fixture CREE CXB3590 COB’s 3000K with 90 CRI.

If you’re using an amazon special I would agree you’re probably not getting greatest results.
With my rapid fixture I’ve never seen this kind of growth and penetration in any of my grows until I switched. You get what you pay for.


#47

I’m using a 1000w HPS per plant. I totally understand that the GOOD LEDS do great. What I’m saying is, they build them to be “equivalent to” an HPS. They use less electricity, and put off less heat, thus saving money. But seeing as how they are built “equivalent to”, they are not more, but yet they are more “efficient”, Now I TOTALLY believe that a LED that pulled 1000w from the wall would out do a 1000w HPS. The lighting man, aka @dbrn32 said that would be over kill. I’m NOT saying LED’S are not as good as HPS, I just saying they are more efficient


#48

Some are, some aren’t. Depends on specific model. The biggest reason for this is that there are standards for which have already been put in place. If a 1000 watt hps rig was the “ideal” par levels for a 6x6 grow space, you’d see a lot more 6x6 grow tents.

There are reputable and tested light studies that suggest target photon density. The led manufacturers have so many different sized components available they can design lights any way they want. You could put a 600 watt qb light in a 3x3 if you wanted, it just doesn’t make any sense to do so. Since grow spaces are pretty standard, so are the tried and true light density levels. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to step outside of what we know in my opinion.


#49

i agree,
switched from 400w HID to 2x 135w QB and they r out doing the HID.!
WIN_20180404_19_04_05_Pro

WIN_20181029_14_50_09_Pro

i have grown under 23w cfl, 40w floro, 400w hid, the sun, and now 135w QB led,
the QB’s have surpassed all other lighting except the sun.!
its been a while since i’ve grown outdoors, the QB’s might be a competitor.!! LOL


#50

Wright now i’m using 400 watt H,P.S for veg and 1000 Watt H.P.S for flower.
I’m upgrading to L.E.Ds and i’ll found this this morning on our site here. I’m very glad I found this before I go and order. Here is what I found.

Many suppliers sell 1000w led grow lights recently. It shows many growers are
asking for 1000W led. But when you buy 1000W led, did you consider if your
plants really need the leds with that high power? Is it real 1000w LED from
the wall? If not, how can we judge how many watt lights is suitable for your
plants and how to judge the truth of so called 1000W led on Ebay, Amazon…?

Firstly, let’ talk why many growers look for 1000W led?

Growers tended to buy 600W, 1000W HPS when HPS was dominant in the market. As
leds becomes more and more popular, these HPS growers changed their lights to
leds. They thought 1000W leds can replace 1000W HPS, that’ the main reason why
they are looking for 1000W leds.

Many suppliers want to attract customers and sell mores lights, so they name
their leds “1000W’’ led and told their customers they used 10W chips. In fact,
the draw power of these lights is very low, 10W chips is not true. Usually when
we change to LED, we need watt for watt replacement. That means we need 1000w
LED (real power) to replace 1000w HPS in order to get the same yield. So it is
not possible to let a 150W draw power led to replace 1000w HPS. The so called
saving energy (around saving 75% energy) is not true, led tech hasn’t been that
advanced yet.

For example:

Some growers complained the low efficiency and bad quality of leds of growing
result, they said they bought 1000W BXXXVA and KxxxPxxx led on Amazon and used
them in the tent 4x4. But the plants grows very very slowly even for veg, so
they have to use their old 1000W HPS again. We asked them to check the draw power,
the lights is only about 150~180W. It only can work for 2’x2’—2.5’x2.5’. And
they even could not find the PAR test pictures, so it is really difficult to
say the lights efficiency.

If you want to use led grow lights, the most important thing is to find a
suitable and right lights.

Do you really need 1000W leds for your plants?

Usually when we use traditional led grow lights: 30–35W/SF (draw power)
will be needed for veg. 35–50W/SF (draw power) will be needed for flowering
if you want to get good harvest, so when you choose led grow light, you can
calculate how many watt led you need.

What’s more, PAR is also very important, 300–350umol/s will be needed for
growth, 700–800umol/s will be needed for flowering. It can help you judge
your light coverage and light efficiency.

Conclusion: when we buy led grow lights, we can not only see the name of
product, we also need to read specification “draw power” and PAR, coverage
of lights .Hope everyone can find the suitable lights for their growing. :slight_smile:


#51

This is very large But very informative a must have.
This may have to be in two parts

Types of Lights for Cannabis Growing - Different Marijuana Lighting Sources

Light for cannabis plants

Without light, cannabis plants cannot grow. In the countries in which marijuana grows best,
the sun is the source of light. The amount of light and the length of the growing season in
these countries results in huge tree-like cannabis plants. In most parts of North America,
however, the sun is not generally intense enough for long enough periods of time to produce
the same size and quality of cannabis plants that grow with ease in Latin America and other
tropical countries.

Sunshine is most intense at the equator where it is closest to the earth. Some of the largest,
resin-coated buds in the world grow beneath this blazing sun. So what’s this got to do with
indoor growing? Plenty. Light is one of the most basic needs of all cannabis plants and the
most often mismanaged.

Even the most experienced growers forget about the basic needs of a cannabis plant, especially light.

The answer to the problem of lack of sun, especially in the winter months, shortness of the
growing season, and other problems is to grow indoor under simulated conditions. The rule of
thumb seems to be the more light, the better.

The common incandescent light bulb emits some of the frequencies of light the cannabis plant can use,
but it also emits a high percentage of far red and infra-red light which cause the cannabis plant to
concentrate its growth on the stem. This results in the cannabis plant stretching toward the light
bulb until it becomes so tall and spindly that it just weakly topples over.

There are several brands of bulb type. One is the incandescent cannabis plant spot light which
emits higher amounts of red and blue light than the common light bulb. It is an improvement, but
has it drawbacks. it is hot, for example, and cannot be placed close to the cannabis plants.

Consequently, the cannabis plant has to stretch upwards again and is in danger of becoming
elongated and falling over. The red bands of light seem to encourage stem growth which is
not desirable in growing marijuana. The idea is to encourage foliage growth for obvious reasons.

Flourescent light tubes range in size from one to eight feet in length so you can set up a
growing area almost anywhere. There are two types of flourescent lights; standard and the
wide spectrum. They can be used in conjunction with one another, but the wide spectrum lights
are not sufficient on their own. The wide spectrum lights were designed as a supplementary light
source and are cheaper than the standard lights.

Wide spectrum lights emit the same bands of light as the standard but the standard emit higher
concentrations of red and blue bands that the cannabis plants need to grow.

The wide spectrum lights also emit infra-red, the effect of which on stem growth we have already
discussed. If you are planning to grow on a large scale, you might be interested to know that the
regular fluorescent lamps and fixtures, the type that are used in commercial lighting, work well
when used along with the grow lights.

These commercial lights are called cool whites, and are the cheapest of the fluorescent lights we
have mentioned. They emit as much blue light as the standard grow lights and the blue light is
what the cannabis plants use in foliage growth.

Intensity

Now we come to the question of intensity. Both the standard and wide spectrum lamps come in three
intensities: regular output, high output, and very high output. You can grow a crop of cannabis
plants under the regular output lamps. The difference in using the HO or VHO lamps is the time
it takes to grow a crop.

Under a VHO lamp, the cannabis plants grow at a rate that is about three times the rate at which
they grow under the standard lamps. People have been known to get a cannabis plant that is four
feet tall in two months under one of these lights.

Under the VHO lights, one may have to raise the lights every day which means a growth rate of ate
least two inches a day. The only drawback is the expense of the VHO lamps and fixtures. The VHO lamps
and fixtures are almost twice the price of the standard.

Now that you have your lights up, you might be curious about the amount of light to give you cannabis
plants per day. The maturation date of your cannabis plants is dependent on how much light they receive
per day. The longer the dark period per day, the sooner the cannabis plant will bloom. Generally
speaking, the less dark per day the better during the first six months of the cannabis plant’s life.

If your cannabis plants receive 12 hours of light per day they will probably mature in 2 to 2.5 months.
If they get 16 hours of light per day they will probably be blooming in 3.5 to 4 months. With 18 hours
of light per day, they will flower in 4.5 to 5 months. Its a good idea to put your lights on a timer
to ensure that the amount of light received each day remains constant.
Energy Emissions In Arbitrary Color Bands
40 Watt Flourescent Lamps
In Watts and Percent of Total Emissions
Daylight Cool White Gro-Lux GroLux WS
Light Type Band Watts % Watts % Watts % Watts %
Ultra-Violet -380 0.186 2.15 0.16 1.68 0.10 1.42 0.27 3.16
Violet 380-430 0.832 9.60 0.72 7.57 0.70 9.67 1.07 12.48
Blue 430-490 2.418 27.91 1.98 20.78 1.96 27.07 1.22 14.29
Green 490-560 2.372 27.38 2.35 24.67 1.02 14.02 1.24 14.49
Yellow 560-590 1.259 14.53 1.74 18.27 0.10 1.42 0.83 9.77
Orange 590-630 1.144 13.21 1.69 17.75 0.44 6.05 1.36 15.93
Red 630-700 0.452 6.22 0.81 8.47 2.86 39.55 1.86 21.78
Far Red 700-780 0.130 1.53 0.07 0.81 0.06 0.80 0.69 8.10
Total 8.890 100.0 9.52 100.0 7.24 100.0 8.54 100.0

Grow Light Guide

Horticultural lighting systems allow you to extend the growing season by providing your cannabis
plants with an indoor equivalent to sunlight. This is a great advantage for those of you who
appreciate having a year-round supply of fresh flowers, veggies and herbs. Artificial lighting
is also a great way to jump-start spring by starting your seedlings months ahead of the last frost.
There are three main types of horticultural lighting systems.

In summary, marijuana has a lust for light. HP sodium lamps produce 20% more light than super metal
halides. Horizontal reflectors yield up to 40% more light than vertical reflectors. Hammer or pebble
specular, anodized aluminum or white are the most reflective surfaces for hoods. Mirror finish is
the absolute worst reflective surface for a hood. Hang 400 watt lamps at 18-24” above garden, 600
and 1000 watt lamps, 24-30” above garden. Use a light meter. Grow the strongest, healthiest cannabis
plants that reach their maximum potential for resin production. Bright light brings big buds.

HID (High Intensity Discharge) Lighting

HID lighting is the most efficient way to convert electricity into light that is available to
the consumer. There are two types of HID grow lights used for horticultural lighting:

HID Light Efficiency

Metal Halide - MH

Metal halide bulbs produce an abundance of light in the blue spectrum. This color of light promotes
cannabis plant growth and is excellent for green leafy growth and keeping cannabis plants compact.
It is the best type of light to be used as a primary light source (if no or little natural sunlight
is available). The average lifespan is about 10,000 cumulative hours. The bulb will light up beyond
this time but due to the gradual decline of light, it is not worth your while to wait for the bulb to
finally burn out. If you compare their lumen (brightness) per unit of energy consumed, metal halides
produce up to 125 lumens per watt compared to 39 lumens per watt with fluorescent lights and 18 lumens
per watt for standard incandescent bulbs.

High Pressure Sodium - HPS

High pressure sodium bulbs emit an orange-red glow. This band of light triggers hormones in
cannabis plants to increase flowering/budding in cannabis plants. They are the best lights
available for secondary or supplemental lighting (used in conjunction with natural sunlight).
This is ideal for greenhouse growing applications.

Not only is this a great flowering light, it has two features that make it a more economical
choice. Their average lifespan is twice that of metal halides, but after 18,000 hours of use,
they will start to draw more electricity than their rated watts while gradually producing less
light. HPS bulbs are very efficient. They produce up to 140 lumens per watt. Their disadvantage
is they are deficient in the blue spectrum.

If a gardener were to start a young cannabis plant under a HPS bulb, she/he would see impressive
vertical growth. In fact, probably too impressive. Most cannabis plants would grow up thin and lanky and in no time you will have to prune your cannabis plant back before it grows into the light fixture. The exception to this is using a HPS light in a greenhouse. Sunlight is high in the blue spectrum which would offset any stretching caused by HPS bulbs.

Common manufacturers of metal halide and high pressure (HP) sodium lights include Philips,
General Electric, Iwasaki, Venture, and Osram/Sylvania. Many of the manufacturers buy and use
the same components, often manufactured by competitors. Most often the bulbs have the exact same
technical statistics.

Lighting Chart - A guide for wattage per square foot.
HID Light Output Primary Growing Area Supplemental Area
100 watts 2’ x 2’ 3’ x 3’
250 watts 3’ x 3’ 4’ x 4’
400 watts 4’ x 4’ 6’ x 6’
600 watts 6’ x 6’ 8’ x 8’
1000 watts 8’ x 8’ 12’ x 12’

HID Lighting Helpful Tips

Hanging height: Due to the heat that is emitted from these types of fixtures, you should hang
them according to size. Smaller wattage systems (100 and 250) should be hung about 2 feet from
the tops of the cannabis plants. Medium wattage systems (400 and 600) should be hung around 3 feet
from the top of the cannabis plants. High wattage systems (1000 and up) should be placed at least
4 to 5 feet from the cannabis plant tops.

How long should lights run?

This depends on the type of cannabis plant. Most cannabis plants and vegetables need about
10 to 12 hours of light to promote growth. cannabis plants that produce fruits or flowers
will show improvement with up to 16 hours a day of supplemental light.

Fluorescent Lighting

This type of light is perfect for starts and seedlings. They are also popular for growing low-light
cannabis plants like herbs and African violets. Fluorescent lights are low intensity and need to be
placed within 8" (up to 15" for shade loving cannabis plants) of the cannabis plants to be effective.
They are a poor light source for flowering and budding primarily because of their low lumen output.

Daylight Cool White Gro-Lux GroLux WS
Light Type Band Watts % Watts % Watts % Watts %
Ultra-Violet -380 0.186 2.15 0.16 1.68 0.10 1.42 0.27 3.16
Violet 380-430 0.832 9.60 0.72 7.57 0.70 9.67 1.07 12.48
Blue 430-490 2.418 27.91 1.98 20.78 1.96 27.07 1.22 14.29
Green 490-560 2.372 27.38 2.35 24.67 1.02 14.02 1.24 14.49
Yellow 560-590 1.259 14.53 1.74 18.27 0.10 1.42 0.83 9.77
Orange 590-630 1.144 13.21 1.69 17.75 0.44 6.05 1.36 15.93
Red 630-700 0.452 6.22 0.81 8.47 2.86 39.55 1.86 21.78
Far Red 700-780 0.130 1.53 0.07 0.81 0.06 0.80 0.69 8.10
Total 8.890 100.0 9.52 100.0 7.24 100.0 8.54 100.0

Grow Light Guide

Horticultural lighting systems allow you to extend the growing season by providing your cannabis
plants with an indoor equivalent to sunlight. This is a great advantage for those of you who
appreciate having a year-round supply of fresh flowers, veggies and herbs. Artificial lighting
is also a great way to jump-start spring by starting your seedlings months ahead of the last frost.
There are three main types of horticultural lighting systems.

In summary, marijuana has a lust for light. HP sodium lamps produce 20% more light than super metal
halides. Horizontal reflectors yield up to 40% more light than vertical reflectors. Hammer or pebble
specular, anodized aluminum or white are the most reflective surfaces for hoods. Mirror finish is
the absolute worst reflective surface for a hood. Hang 400 watt lamps at 18-24” above garden, 600
and 1000 watt lamps, 24-30” above garden. Use a light meter. Grow the strongest, healthiest cannabis
plants that reach their maximum potential for resin production. Bright light brings big buds.

HID (High Intensity Discharge) Lighting

HID lighting is the most efficient way to convert electricity into light that is available to the
consumer. There are two types of HID grow lights used for horticultural lighting:

HID Light Efficiency

Metal Halide - MH

Metal halide bulbs produce an abundance of light in the blue spectrum. This color of light promotes
cannabis plant growth and is excellent for green leafy growth and keeping cannabis plants compact.
It is the best type of light to be used as a primary light source (if no or little natural sunlight
is available). The average lifespan is about 10,000 cumulative hours. The bulb will light up beyond
this time but due to the gradual decline of light, it is not worth your while to wait for the bulb to
finally burn out. If you compare their lumen (brightness) per unit of energy consumed, metal halides
produce up to 125 lumens per watt compared to 39 lumens per watt with fluorescent lights and 18 lumens
per watt for standard incandescent bulbs.

High Pressure Sodium - HPS

High pressure sodium bulbs emit an orange-red glow. This band of light triggers hormones in cannabis
plants to increase flowering/budding in cannabis plants. They are the best lights available for
secondary or supplemental lighting (used in conjunction with natural sunlight). This is ideal for
greenhouse growing applications.

Not only is this a great flowering light, it has two features that make it a more economical choice.
Their average lifespan is twice that of metal halides, but after 18,000 hours of use, they will start
to draw more electricity than their rated watts while gradually producing less light. HPS bulbs are
very efficient. They produce up to 140 lumens per watt. Their disadvantage is they are deficient in
the blue spectrum.

If a gardener were to start a young cannabis plant under a HPS bulb, she/he would see impressive
vertical growth. In fact, probably too impressive. Most cannabis plants would grow up thin and
lanky and in no time you will have to prune your cannabis plant back before it grows into the light
fixture. The exception to this is using a HPS light in a greenhouse. Sunlight is high in the blue
spectrum which would offset any stretching caused by HPS bulbs.

Common manufacturers of metal halide and high pressure (HP) sodium lights include Philips,
General Electric, Iwasaki, Venture, and Osram/Sylvania. Many of the manufacturers buy and use
the same components, often manufactured by competitors. Most often the bulbs have the exact same technical statistics.

Lighting Chart - A guide for wattage per square foot.
HID Light Output Primary Growing Area Supplemental Area
100 watts 2’ x 2’ 3’ x 3’
250 watts 3’ x 3’ 4’ x 4’
400 watts 4’ x 4’ 6’ x 6’
600 watts 6’ x 6’ 8’ x 8’
1000 watts 8’ x 8’ 12’ x 12’

HID Lighting Helpful Tips

Hanging height: Due to the heat that is emitted from these types of fixtures, you should hang
them according to size. Smaller wattage systems (100 and 250) should be hung about 2 feet from
the tops of the cannabis plants. Medium wattage systems (400 and 600) should be hung around
3 feet from the top of the cannabis plants. High wattage systems (1000 and up) should be placed
at least 4 to 5 feet from the cannabis plant tops.

How long should lights run?

This depends on the type of cannabis plant. Most cannabis plants and vegetables need about
10 to 12 hours of light to promote growth. cannabis plants that produce fruits or flowers
will show improvement with up to 16 hours a day of supplemental light.

Fluorescent Lighting

This type of light is perfect for starts and seedlings. They are also popular for growing low-light
cannabis plants like herbs and African violets. Fluorescent lights are low intensity and need to be
placed within 8" (up to 15" for shade loving cannabis plants) of the cannabis plants to be effective.
They are a poor light source for flowering and budding primarily because of their low lumen output.


#52

A bright white fluorescent light (6400k) contains a lot of blue light, which
can be a good choice for the vegetative stage.Blue light also works together
with red light to help the plant “know” whether it’s day or night time, and
help set circadian rhythms. You may notice that cannabis plants start drooping
right before the lights go off each day, and they start perking up right when
lights come on. This is a way for the plant to save energy while it’s “sleeping.”
Since the blue in the light helps it “know” the time schedule, it will prepare
as best it can for lights-out and lights-on.


#53

Before you buy anything @garrigan65 let @dbrn32 run some ideas past you. You won’t regret it, I promise :wink::v:


#54

Yeah I have that too a 600hps that go to 240-400-600 &630flower it’s will be good for the space you have and old skool is always good bless and good growin


#55

Ya, we have been talking off an on today. Still not sure what I want to do. These dam things are so exspencive


#56

That sure is a long way from the plant. I have mine at less than 2ft


#57

One point on LED vs MH/HPS: due to the lower amount of heat generated, you can slam an LED fixture right down on top of the plant for better canopy penetration. Especially when using training techniques.


#58

I got 8" air cooled reflectors so I could run them closer. And as a bonus, I exhausted through the floor to my crawl space, which keeps my pipes from freezing in the winter. Gotta make use of the extra heat generated


#59

Can you get 6" away from your canopy? I can…and it does make a difference when I use a SCROG: it penetrates very well and the last harvest had almost no larf. Just dense tight bud.

They are both good technologies and will both do a great job. I would recommend the MH/HPS if heat isn’t an issue or more heat is needed in the grow space and LED’s if heat is problematic.


#60

No sir, I can’t. But I can get a lot closer than the 4-5ft mentioned in the article. My next light purchase will more than likely be a LED.