Leaf Issues need second opinion


#1

Strain; Type, Bag seed, ILGM… name of strain: Amnesia AF

How many plants: 2

Age from Sprout and Flower: 15 days old

Soil in pots, Hydroponic, or Coco / Brand and type of Medium & Size of Pots: Soil FFSF 5g cloth

How often do you water and how do you determine when to do so? 5 days since transplant 26 ppm R/O water

PH of water and runoff or solution in reservoir: 6.5 no run off

What is strength of nutrient mix? EC, or TDS:No Nutes

What brand and products of Nutrients are you using? Strength and how often? N/A

Indoor or Outdoor: Indoor

Indoor type and size of grow area or tent? 3x4x6

Light system, size and height from plants: 2 300w Maxsisun dimmable LED’s / Full Veg On Bloom Lowest setting at 32" from canopy

Temps; Day, Night:82/78

Humidity; Day, Night:45/40

Ventilation system; Yes, No, Size:Yes 2/6" intake exhaust/2’ oscilatting

AC, Humidifier, De-humidifier: 5200 BTU A/C, Humidifier

Co2; Yes, No:No

Add anything else you feel would help us give you a most informed answer. Feel free to elaborate, but short, to the point questions and facts will help us help you
Trying to figure out this leaf issue it started in there germinating cups from being to wet then they were transplanted into their final 5 gallon cloth pots. Are these girls still dealing with that wet germinating dirt still that was moved over into the new soil and pots or am i having some sort of mag def or light issue.


#2

They look hungry to me even though only two weeks old. I’ve never used FFSF, so wondering if that is a really cold soil. I transplant mine into either FFHF or OF.

Some others will be along I’m sure that can offer their opinion.


#3

FFSF is suppose to have enough Nutes in it to last atleast 3 weeks but i may be wrong . Yea lets hear some more opinions Thx


#4

@Countryboyjvd1971 @Donaldj @garrigan65 @BIGE @Myfriendis410 @MAXHeadRoom @MattyBear @Ron330 @Screwauger @WillyJ


#5

I’m not familiar with your soil but that looks like a hungry plant to me.


#6

@Rugar89)

This looks very much like a " COOPER DEFICIENCY "

1134Copper-de1f

Copper (Cu)

Copper plays a big role in producing healthy plants, stems, branches and new growths, as well as for the plants reproduction and maturity.
It also assists in carbohydrate metabolism and oxygen reduction.

Copper deficiency plants shows a lack of growth, growth tips die back, green leaves will show a bluish hue and plants may have a hard time showing maturity in vegging stages. Copper deficient plants causes irregular growth and wilting in the newer growths. The Leaves at top will wilt easily along with bleaching (chlorosis) and necrotic areas in the leaves. Leaves on the top of the plant may show veinal chlorosis.(bleaching of the veins)
Growth and yield will be diminished along with spots on the leaves that are necrotic.

To much copper in the system will cause the plant to die, as if it was a poison.Near death the plant will induce iron deficiencies and the root system will decay along with abnormal size of the roots, along with little side branching. Some new growths may not open up, along with becoming thin pale green to a bluish hue. Parts affected by copper deficiency are: new shoots, young leaves, and or the whole plant.

Problems with Copper being Locked out by Ph Troubles

High ph along with highly compacted soil that has a lack of nitrogen.

Soil

Copper gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0- 4.5
Copper is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 5.0-7.5 (Wouldn’t recommend having a soil ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Copper deficiency.

Hydro and Soil less Mediums

Copper gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 6.5-9.0
Copper is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0-6.0 (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a copper deficiency.

Solution to fixing a Copper deficiency
One way to treat a copper deficiency is by foliar feeding with Copper Sulphate, Cu sulfate, Cu chelates, Those 3 can also be used in soil. Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have copper in them will fix a copper deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
Other nutrients that have copper in them are: Granular, Garden Manure, Greensand.

Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics, (which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) you need to flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good
enough to get rid of excessive nutrients. Damaged leaves will NOT recover.


#7

@Rugar89

PPM–EC conversion Chart

Re-printed with Permission from Jorge Cervantes;

EC Hanna Eutech Truncheon CF
ms/cm 0.5 ppm 0.64 ppm 0.70 ppm 0
0.1 50 ppm 64 ppm 70 ppm 1
0.2 100 ppm 128 ppm 140 ppm 2
0.3 150 ppm 192 ppm 210 ppm 3
0.4 200 ppm 256 ppm 280 ppm 4
0.5 250 ppm 320 ppm 350 ppm 5
0.6 300 ppm 384 ppm 420 ppm 6
0.7 350 ppm 448 ppm 490 ppm 7
0.8 400 ppm 512 ppm 560 ppm 8
0.9 450 ppm 576 ppm 630 ppm 9
1.0 500 ppm 640 ppm 700 ppm 10
1.1 550 ppm 704 ppm 770 ppm 11
1.2 600 ppm 768 ppm 840 ppm 12
1.3 650 ppm 832 ppm 910 ppm 13
1.4 700 ppm 896 ppm 980 ppm 14
1.5 750 ppm 960 ppm 1050 ppm 15
1.6 800 ppm 1024 ppm 1120 ppm 16
1.7 850 ppm 1088 ppm 1190 ppm 17
1.8 900 ppm 1152 ppm 1260 ppm 18
1.9 950 ppm 1216 ppm 1330 ppm 19
2.0 1000 ppm 1280 ppm 1400 ppm 20
2.1 1050 ppm 1334 ppm 1470 ppm 21
2.2 1100 ppm 1408 ppm 1540 ppm 22
2.3 1150 ppm 1472 ppm 1610 ppm 23
2.4 1200 ppm 1536 ppm 1680 ppm 24
2.5 1250 ppm 1600 ppm 1750 ppm 25
2.6 1300 ppm 1664 ppm 1820 ppm 26
2.7 1350 ppm 1728 ppm 1890 ppm 27
2.8 1400 ppm 1792 ppm 1960 ppm 28
2.9 1450 ppm 1856 ppm 2030 ppm 29
3.0 1500 ppm 1920 ppm 2100 ppm 30
3.1 1550 ppm 1984 ppm 2170 ppm 31
3.2 1600 ppm 2048 ppm 2240 ppm 32

There are three conversion factors which various manufacturers use for displaying ppm’s…

USA 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 500 ppm
European 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 640 ppm
Australian 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 700 ppm

For example,

Hanna, Milwaukee 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 500 ppm
Eutech 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 640 ppm
Truncheon 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 700 ppm


#8

pH scale
Soil, hydroponics and aeroponics
TDS and EC
Feeding the plants

All living things on earth need water (H2O) to survive. Plants (just like humans) require water and are made up of about 2/3 water. It’s important to have a good understanding of the type of water that your plants receive in the same way that it’s important to know how different foods have different effects on our own bodies. Water content is always different, so we’ve provided a few guidelines to understand how it’s used.

pH scale

Testing and maintaining pH

The pH scale essentially measures the acidity and alkalinity levels in water. “pH” is an acronym for the potential § of the existence of the hydrogen ion (H+) in the water. The scale runs from 1 to 14, meaning that a pH of 7.0 has an equal balance between hydrogen ions (H+) and hydroxyl ions (OH-).

You can think of pH like the hotness or coldness of your food. If your food is too hot, then you will burn your tongue or get heartburn. If it’s too cold, your teeth will hurt and you’ll get brain freeze. Finding the ideal pH balance is important for marijuana plants to absorb their food and have good health.

Download my free marijuana grow guide at this link for more about pH and TDS levels

The plant may experience conditions throughout the scale that affect its ability to absorb certain nutrients. That’s why it’s very important to monitor the pH levels in the soil and the water so the roots and the plant itself remain healthy.

Soil, hydroponics and aeroponics

Soil, hydroponics and aeroponics pH, TDS and EC

The medium of soil acts as a buffer that can mitigate damage from any mistakes. That is to say, soil is much more forgiving for newbies. Of course, any damage that occurs with soil is much more difficult to fix. To avoid poor pH levels, mix a sample of your soil with distilled water, and then test the pH level of the water.

Hydroponic systems function by feeding all the nutrients a plant needs through mediums that are rather inert compared to soil. This effectively reduces the buffer zone that soil provides. Cocos or rock-wool can still provide a small buffer that contains its own pH level. Of course, you should compensate for that by adjusting the nutrient solution.

With aeroponics, there is no medium, which means there is no buffer. You won’t have to compensate for any medium so the nutrient solution in the water can be input directly.

It should be noted that the pH level of a nutrient solution is not always the same as the pH level at the plants’ roots. Look at the table to find compensation values for different mediums. pH, TDS/EC values are often contingent on temperature and time.

The primary food delivery system is water, and the plants use a process called “osmosis” to make it happen. The plants pull in nutrients through their roots and the nutrient levels are balanced in the water that’s in the plant and the water that’s around the roots. All the nutrients are absorbed through the external water, and the plant discharges waste (salts). Plants use the same “don’t-shit-where-you-eat” logic that we do, meaning that it’s important to understand how many and what nutrients are in the water.

TDS and EC

TDS and EC for cannabis Inexpensive pH meters can be found at most garden centers, grow shops, and pond stores. You can measure the concentration of ionic salts in the water with two different scales:
•Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) measured in Parts Per Million (PPM)
•Electrical Conductivity (EC)

Water that is pure H2O will not efficiently conduct electricity, but most tap water will contain necessary ions (H+ and Cl-) for conducting electricity. More ions will result in better conductivity. We use this relationship to determine how many nutrients (salts) are in the water.

Plants require diets that are as diverse as diets for people. Some plants may need larger meals that offer more nutrients for growing. By contrast, other plants might be “drowned” by too many nutrients and would require smaller meals. The best TDS values will differ depending on the foods provided and the plants themselves.

Feeding the plants

Feeding the cannabis plantsSoil For the most part, the pH balance is more important to soil growers than TDS/EC values (although an TDS meter is always a good investment). You can monitor the soil using only pH and staying within the recommended range.

That being said, some nutrients are absorbed more fluidly at different pH levels. The graph illustrates the ideal pH values to optimize nutrient absorption. For instance, nitrogen (N) absorbs better at pH 6.0, while phosphorous § and potassium (K) are better at 6.25 and up. This may necessitate a change in pH values when you shift from vegetative state to flowering.

Quick Tip: Always prepare the formula before measuring and changing the pH when you’re mixing a nutrient solution.

Hydro-, Aero- Because hydro- and aero- mediums limit the effect of the buffer, it’s important to focus on TDS/EC, and pH. Nutrients can be absorbed more easily at different TDS values. Hydro- and aero- mediums use direct feeding, which means that you have to carefully ensure that the plants won’t starve while also making sure that they don’t receive too many nutrients which can restrict absorption.

If you’re using reservoir or re-circulatory water systems, then certain cleansing methods like reverse osmosis can drastically improve water quality. It effectively filters out surplus salt build-ups, ensuring that growers will be able to maintain their water quality and support the absorption of nutrients. All of this is sure to provide maximized results.

In the end, making sure that your water quality is high requires some work, but it’s important to achieve a successful product. Next week I’ll upload some example feeding schedules and show you how to mix and level your water. Download my free grow guide and order some high quality marijuana seeds at this link here. We ship seeds to the US, CA and many other countries. For any growing related question please visit the marijuana support page.

By latewood on 25 April 2014

This is the absolute most important information you need to understand to grow healthy plant over and over again. Knowing how to read and adjust the PH of your plants is imperative.

When it come to EC/PPM; It is very important to know that sometimes, “less is more”. Don’t over0fert your plants because you are impatient and want to see them get bigger over night. Learn how to measure your run off in soil, or your res PH in hydro. Get ahead of the game.


#9

WOW! All i can say is WoW what is all this? I did not ask for all this my question was simple. Copper def i will take in consideration due to i have been using R/O 26ppm water which has very little if any copper in it and i may have flushed any copper in that soil out on a previous experiment on PPM run off of that particular soil. So i guess my question would be how much copper should i start out with to test this? Should i just give it some tap water and see what the copper in it does?


#10

Ah ha, so this isn’t fresh soil. So there are probably no nutrients left in it. Just feed the plant with any decent fertilizer that has copper, just in case, and I think you’ll be fine.


#11

Its not per say been used but i did run about 2 gallons of water through it to get a run off ppm reading on the soil in the start before i started the seeds in their pots. So i assume it is possible that i may have washed out some of the ferts with this test. I already have a 1/2 dose of feeding water ready for it for the morning and we will see how it goes thanks for the feedback


#12

Please keep us updated. I’m interested in how it turns out.


#13

@JediKnight,

What are you using for a lighting source?


#14

Just to add my two cents
Ive found the need to start my nutrients a little earlier than normal using RO water
All trace minerals ate removed when using ro so youll need to replace them with nutrients
Just my two cents
@Dumme hes using 2 300w maxxisun leds


#15

It appears the Maxsisun 300w LED is only 142 watts each, and 284watts @ 32inches should be ok, but it looks like light burn in my opinion. I’ve never used Fox Farm Strawberry Fields, but Fox Farm soil should have enough copper, and I like what the packaging says for microorganisms added.

Was the lights closer before?


#16

Yea they were at 30 inches at start now they are at 36 inches i gave her a half a dose of grow and a half a dose of cal/mag see if she responds ill give her a stronger dose on Thursday and snap a pic this weekend for all to see the recovery.


#17

Makes sense Thumbs Up


#18

A lot of these lights act like a lens in places too so you can get localized bleaching.


#19

@PhantomFarmer @Countryboyjvd1971 @garrigan65
The final diagnosis was a cal/mag def not a copper def. Its being tossed around that there is some issues with cal/mag def and Led light whether this is true or not is still situational. I do believe i was having a cal/mag issue because a couple small doses of cal/mag then a feeding made this girl look so much better. You can see the cal/mag def leave slowly between leaves. Now she looks like she has started flowering unfortunately sooner than i wanted her too i just got the cal/mag under control lol. But she is looking much better i think giimie some feedback or anysuggestions moving forward they are welcomed.
unfortunately though i did lose the other plant due to this def and i believe i had a serious root problem like possible root rot due to over watering in beginning (have another sprouted already going) :stuck_out_tongue: . PEACE!!


#20

A lot of nutrient formulas not specifically designed for hydroponics or use with R/O often need extra cal-mag, as in general, tap water often has a lot of naturally occurring calcium and magnesium.

I don’t see any signs of this being LED light burn, which almost always manifests as “bleaching”, or photoinhibition, and not yellow burnt looking leaves as might happen with HID lights and “light burn”.

Also, something to keep in mind, over watering in and of itself can cause a cal-mag deficiency, so if the soil is staying overly wet, this could be a contributing factor.

And of course the pH at the root zone might be a contributing factor, and so how are you determining your pH is indeed at 6.5 at the roots?

happy growing,

MacG