Im throwing in the towel :/


Seems like the 4 light from my store is $550 a bit more than the 2 light that @Donaldj posted. But their lights are made in USA by Johnson lighting. I don’t mind paying a bit more to employ some Americans and hoping for better quality lighting maybe !!! I know it’s hard but I try to buy American made if it’s available and honestly some things cost a lot more but I’ve never been disappointed even when paying more. Customer service is always better it seems


Do you use these lights @Donaldj if so do you feel it will do as discribed or do you need additional lighting to accomplish your goal??? Sorry for so many questions but I’m a bit slow!!


This is the light your store has?


Not at this time he said he will b getting them at the end of next week I guess that light is the replacement for the exact light I posted with the 9 COBs in it. But they do have the smaller board it’s like a 2x2 square and he said it will replace a T-5 fixture but if I go to buy some I’m sure that’s the one I’ll b getting because he only had 1- 9 cob style left and said they will b replaced by that board you posted. But he said it does the same as the 9 but has a bigger foot print.


Hold up the light I posted is only a 4- cob so the one he was showing me was a 9 cob that you will see on that site the Cx-9


To be clear, Johnson grow lights is horticulture lighting group. Hlg is a joint venture between Johnson grow lights (Stephen) and Northern grow lights (Robin). So all of those products are viewable on horticulture lighting group web page.

I’m pretty familiar with the different models.


Yeah that’s what he was telling me that the HLG light are from Johnson. They seem like very high quality lights. And of course I like they r American made. He told me it will draw 460 w from the wall now does that mean I’m onky getting a 460w light. Or am I misunderstanding that part. But you obviously like this brand also and do you use any of them. I personally like the COB style but the boards are very cool too


Technically, no. I build all of my own lights. As in buy all of the leds, drivers, heatsinks, and materials and assemble them. But the cx-9 is 9 citizen clu-048’s right? I’d have to go look, but I’d be willing to bet the par levels are slightly lower than the board counterpart. Considering they have the discount running now on the 550, it woods be a win win. If you like the cobs though, the cx-9 is their 1000 watt replacement in cobs. The Cx-6 is a better fit for flowering a 3x3 or vegging a 4x4.


Oh gosh!! I was just watching the video on the DIY kits. That might b the way to go for me. I am a fabricator so I think I could handle it. Now I just need to find out what to buy. Your saying the boards have a better saturation than the cobs. I think I like those because it resembles a regular HID more to me but that don’t mean it works better. Hmmmm! Still spinning. Hahahah


I am pretty sure it is the cree chip considering I ordered it’s cheaper cousin which is pink hue and also 1/2 the price and it isn’t 400w it is 400w comparable. Much like most LED’s are advertised and rated as what they compare to in traditional HID lights, I only shared the link because the other link shared was an 800w for over $500 so offered a saving option.
I think we all realize that paying more we get more but sometimes it’s simply getting what works within your budget
HYG09-2x200W-W Product Specs
LED: CREE CXA3070 3000K
Voltage: AC85-265v
Current: 0.5a-1a
Working Frequency: 50-60Hz
Working Environment: -4℉ - 104℉
Lifespan: 50,000 hours
Warranty: 2 years
I am pretty sure they aren’t over driven


Yes of course. We all know you get what you oay for but yes if it works for less why not?!?! I do like the HLG lights I’ve looked at and yes there 20% off on their site right now so I’m bangjng my head against the wall trying to figure out what to do. Or just stay the same cuz I actually already have all I need just in conventional lights. I know


I was corrected on it being a different model than John had, that was my mistake.

But over driven and driven beyond the efficiency range is two entirely different things right? The cxa’s are something like 45% efficient at 1400ma, to be anywhere near the output of a 400 watt hps they’ll have to be higher bin and driven to max. I’d bet money you’re not getting a high bin, and based off reviews of 200ish wall watts they’re above 1400ma even with fans and a cheap driver. Giving them benefit of doubt, we’ll say fans and driver consume 50 Watts. That puts drive current around 2100ma, and the cxa below 40% efficient.

The lumileds are running around low to mid 30’s efficiency % wise, which makes that Cree name tag almost useless in that application. That was the only point I was trying to make. This is the exact reason that animosity still lies between hid/led tech. You can’t simply associate a name with something and expect it to perform. There is a 100% upgrade in light difference from the bottom bin to the top bin alone. Then going from the top bin cxa 3070 to the top bin cxb 3590 is nearly another 20% jump as well. That’s like 150% more light per watt.

People that make blanket statements that led is higher output per watt are misinformed. They can be, very easily if they’re allowed to. That fixture is fair for the price, but it’s not configured to be an hid replacement above it’s actual power draw.


First off not saying my suggestion was perfect just an option I was comparing based on the 800w model posted in the link at $550 which was 4 100w chips or 2 of the smaller lights I posted side by side which came out to $360 same basic design for nearly $200 less.
Yes a guy could build better to gain efficiency but within next month there’s even better on market so or this works better than that results. So I suggest an option which gets close cheaply so they can afford to upgrade if they like results cheaper way to test before committing. If they only last 2 years they still cost less to replace than a good hortilux bulb and replacing a driver isn’t rocket science if a person chose to get back some efficiency and add more life to them.


Yep, out of likes but I agree with that 100%. My directive was more generalized. More of an example, if you purchased that lamp to do a side by side with your 315 cmh, you would be very disappointed in the led. Despite it having a number around 400 associated with it. The lights that would be competitive with your 315 cmh would have about a $600 price tag on them. And cost in the neighborhood of $300+ to build.

You provided a very good example of cost in last post. I have no idea what something like an eye hortilux 250 -400 watt bulb costs. But safe to say you would be money ahead on something like a 2 year time frame. Replacing driver is piece of cake indeed. You connect driver output to leds, driver input to wall plug. When you look at it like that, that’s complete wiring on diy build. You’re just sourcing leds and heatsinks in addition to the driver. It makes that $300ish number a lot more attractive than $600 lol.

Edit… forgot to touch on last subject. We’re kind of passed the big jumps in led tech a couple times a year. Or at least, there’s a lull. Most efficient diode available I’m currently aware of is the Samsung lm310b. It was announced last June I think, to replace the 561c s6 bin. In luminous efficacy, it’s literally 2 additional lumens per diode at same test currents. So that’s the major advances over the last 12-18 months. Within that time, bridgelux, citizen, Cree, osram, nichia,and luminous have all touched into the 200+ lumen per watt efficacy as well. So maybe bigger improvements for them, but not as the industry goes.

We’re sitting on new gen’s from citizen and luminous right now. Advertising is showing about 3% increase in efficacy for them. However both are also showing a shift in spectral performance toward green wavelengths. So they didn’t really make any efficiency improvements, they just shifted the spectrum toward the wavelength that’s weighted for measuring luminous flux. That doesn’t fall in line with the energy that we look at for horticulture applications. I know you have plenty of experience there, so I’m sure it makes sense.

That’s the same reason @Bogleg stealing those gen 5 citi’s Was such a great deal. They did the same thing from there gen 5 to gen 6. The again 3% gain in luminous flux meant nothing to par energy, so you get a great price on something that performs just as good. If I catch something physically better come out, we’ll be all over it. And it will happen, but likely not in the coming months.



I have 2 coming to compete and true wattage of them is around 190 at wall minus driver fans maybe 150 so they are pretty close in true watts. And yes I ordered 1 blurple 1 cree same company so should be pretty close in draw and if they don’t work will pair them with LEC if they do will double LEC’s in one space :wink: and buy 1 more of whichever works better. I will be using on single plant scrog light mover set to move them both along canopy to get clear picture blurple vs white while in other space running LEC


That’s cool. But, it’s not a fair comparison in my opinion. You have the latest and greatest in hid tech doing a side by side with 3 year old leds that driven to about max current?


I think it is closer contest Brand new manufacturer rated to compete with 400w HID x2 verse 8 month old CMH 315w bulb which has ran 12hrs everyday since purchased :slight_smile:
Foot print par of 4 lights vs single bulb directed light vs spread LED should actually have advantage here. If test proves interesting results would put it up against my 400w hps but considering the led manufacturers tout a higher blue and red spectrum than CMH bulbs I figure it’s fair if you still think it’s unfair I could also dim LEC :wink:


Depends on how you look at it really. By that logic, would be the same as putting two 150 watt hps lights against the 315. Same amount of power from more sources right? But there’s no sense in doing that is that is there.

Same goes for the spectral distribution. The cmh is something like 97 cri? Looks like a 70-80cri spectrum provided on the listing. Not the 90cri that is usually compared to the cmh.


Also, after taking a closer look at the listing, they don’t in writing claim that this is competitive or designed to replace a 400 watt hid. It’s simply listed as Cree 400w led.

I was thinking if nothing else, we could at least decipher how good roleadro’s claims were. But we can’t really pin something they don’t say on them.


@Donaldj and @dbrn32 you guys left me way back in the dust. Lmao!!! I can see my whole problem is I understand none of that. Lmao. You fellas are mad scientists with the lights.