ok so I finally figured out why I cannot source hydroguard in audtralia, and it is because BAYER, stupid, scum, and the government being dumb.
so along my search for hydroguard or a replacement, I found the intellectual patent for a product of theirs “serenade”,
essentially they copywrited the bacteria strain bacillus amyloliquefaciens
not only can you not sell it as bacillus amyloliquefaciens, you cannot advertise as “bio fungicide” with any of the other bacteria either.
what a joke.
Kettle
Try Great White beneficial fungi and bacteria, available on ebay, hint offer the seller $45 for the 150g and $150 for the 750g and he will accept.
@FrostyBuds, that’s not a bad price.
its not the point how can you copywrite a species, they didn’t make it… so I can but metric tones of biological species from Alibaba but I cant order a reputable supplier in the product I want, so the hydro# edge I thought was going to get me out of trouble just got them and they were 250ml bottles, I got 2 but I thought they were 1ltre, so its 120$ a litre, because its kinda a black market… because Bay$er doesn’t just sell to the general public.
it is a joke, it was discovered in 1943 by a jap scientist not bayer.
I use to work for them in one of their chemical plants and I do know they sell the identical product under different names, at different prices…
its shit… this rant will continue, I will go through all of bayers documentation work out what u can use hydroguard for.
LIKE; you may be able to use hydroguard as a preventative to molds so bud rot., but I need to reed more,
I am so pissed as u can tell.
more information from another supplier of the bacteria, re fungus. and how it works.
The active ingredient in Serifel® is bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain MBI600 (min 5.5 x 10^10 cfu/g). Serifel forms a ‘shield of protection’ against a broad spectrum of plant pathogens using three modes of action: competition for space, competition for sustenance and the production of antifungal metabolites.
When the Serifel spores are the first to occupy the limited space on the plant, they physically exclude plant pathogens from occupying the same space. Serifel then depletes the supply of nutrients available to the pathogen spores on the plant surface, causing any pathogen spores on the plant surface to die. The antifungal metabolites produced by Serifel, surfactin and iturin, penetrate pathogen cell membranes, disrupting cell function and causing cell death on the plant’s surface.
It is critical Serifel is used preventatively rather than curatively because Serifel cannot eliminate pathogen spores that have already infiltrated the plant’s surface.
ok so I know this is probably not really going to get read by too many people, but I find it interesting so maybe someone will.
ok I now know how to do DWC in Australia with no dramas, u sell your soul and buy the bayer product… its bacillus amyloliquefaciens plus Diatomaceaous earth, and starch I assume for food… and it is in wettable powder form in 10 pound amounts… and cost (apart from your soul), $330 aud or around 275 usd. it seems like a lot but you never need to worry about hydroguard for the rest of your life…
I don’t know im torn, I only want like a kilo… that would be enough the dilution rates are so low…
hope you all are well…
an interesting read of what the bacteria can be used for.
ok its been done, my soul is forfeit… ive ordered the bayer serenade opti 5kgs…
did I tell you I found out they bought Monsanto a couple of years ago… 
at least I know it will be good…,.
so it was $300 for 5kgs, and what is it? the other ingredients are starch and Damascus earth…
A Wettable Powder Biofungicide FOR AGRICULTURAL USE ACTIVE INGREDIENT: QST 713 Bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain of Bacillus subtilis* . . . . . . . . .26.2% OTHER INGREDIENTS: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .73.8% TOTAL: 100.0% *Contains a minimum of 1 .31 x 1010 cfu/g
EPA Reg. No. 264-1160 EPA Est. No. 264-MEX-001
KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN CAUTION For ADDITIONAL PRECAUTIONARY STATEMENTS and DIRECTIONS FOR USE: See Inside Booklet.
why I went with this? I am not anti hydroguard, im pro hydroguard, we just cant use it in Australia, hydroguard doesn’t smell, I bet this stuff does… use hydroguard if u can
the product I believe is 100x more concentrated then hydroguard, its stable… I can get serenade prime, its liquid form for half price for twice as much… but its 10 times less strong, hence 5 times more expensive… confusing? 
its also liquid, and in a 2.5 gallon amount, im never going to use that all in time… it separates… the bacteria dies… it seemed cheaper, but the guy at the agricultural shop was SUPER helpful, and we both agreed bayer is the devil and the product I brought is perfect for preventing root rot in my medium sized ‘aquaponics’ system… 
what im going to do is measure out 500 gram amounts in new sterile plastic jars, then vacuum seal each one… id say that’s root protection for ten years for all my systems at least… now $300 dollars doesn’t seem too bad.
ill let you know how I go though…
so the hydroguard rant has reach it end, 
I have the product packaged up for the next hundred years… 
look it smells, but alive, yeasty sewage, not too bad if you have traveled to Asia, I just opened a jar for my misses to smell she said its a mixture between molasses and chaff, a bit but it gets diluted down a lot… 
, and by the time its in with the roots there is so much going on… I think im ok…
look @Myfriendis410 put me on to some interesting information and any bacteria strain that u propagate with ox blood is going to have some negative reaction from us… it docent mean its bad, we just react to it, as a defence… I did wear a respirator, but I also smelt the bag, so millions of bacterial spores have gone into my digestive system for a time, they will live there… because these strain is so tough it can survive the hydrochloric acid in our stomachs…amazing, but our bacteria is so much better suited and tougher there it will outcompete with no negative affects, slight nose irritation, no eye irritation…
but after all my investigation, hydroguard is an expensive option for me but also in general… but it doesn’t smell.
so hydroguard is 0.04% bacillus amyloliquefaciens, serenade opti is 27%
a gallon of hydroguard shipped to Australia is around $250 including shipping (not hydroguards fault) 
this was $300… 10 pounds…
so I will update perhaps when I mix up my first one…
the quality of the product itself is exceptional, fluid powder id describe it… im not worried about solubility now…
interesting stuff…
!
@Myfriendis410,i guess I should finish what I started… 
, as I was curious as f#…
and…
diluted…
to hydroguard rates… roughly. heaped half teaspoon to 1 litre…
it doesn’t smell, or barely smells, hell yeah,
molasses, yeast, a tiny bit…
and there you go, the size of the tub I would have liked to have ordered… but happy days everyone…
you know what I was ethically torn about this, until I realized that even in America its much longer shelf life to do it this way… and still 10x cheaper! in Australia its 100, and bayer is still expensive…
you know what next mammoth p…
and I don’t think we have to rely on culturing it I recon I can find raw supplies at a fraction… literal fraction of the cost and could possibly be better supplies too… the quality of that bayer product 
mammoth p, we already know whats in it… and he said the % are important but I still don’t get how that works with me with so much bacillus amyloliquefaciens… if its even effective…
You want to ship one of those tubs to me 
hey buddy, welcome to the forum… put some photos up…
are you in OZ?
do u really want one? im never… never… NEVER… going to use it all… i think i may be 5-10% through the first tub… i can work out how much a tub would cost+ postage… i doubt it would go well being shipped internationally…
BTW… just read up a bit… i have been using it for almost a year, and great results… well it just works… 
Not a fan of IP and in this instance it is most likely illegal, unless they actually made a new bacteria via genetic engineering which I doubt.
Then again who is going to be able or willing to fight the millions of dollars they would through at the case. 
Hey Kettle
I’d love to buy some from you. I cant believe this thread is current. I’ve been using Great White and Hydroedge but just cant shake the Pythium bug. I’ll happily take some off your hands! I just joined and I don’t know how to PM you. Can you send me a message, plz? Thanks.
hey buddy you cant message here but im on growersnetwork with the same name… you’ve used hydroedge so your in oz… yeah be happy to see it not go to waste… and join in here buddy… good fun good peeps…
Thanks. I’ll catch you over there. 
Hey thanks, I’m still getting setup but eventually will, just trying to gather the finishing touches like these microbes haha, yeah I’m oz if you could figure out a price you’d be a life saver!
Yooooo Kettle, please tell me this thread is still active mate? My brain hurts from all the shit im filtering through just to source some damn hydroguard hahahaha. Can you hook me up on the westcoast by anychance?
dunno where you got your info but hudroguard which is owned by botanicare does not have a copyright on baccilus amyloliquefacians that is impossible you cannot copyright a natural gram positive bacteria. hydroguard uses a specific strain of baccilus amyloliquefacians called d747 this same strain is used by several other companies including mine companies like double nickel use it aswell it comes in several pond products aswell some will have barley which helps preserve .another thing to keep in kind about baccilus amyloliquefacians or any baccilus for plant growing like subtilus thermogenesis etc they only have a max of 2 year shelf life in powder or aquaos form if in liquid form it needs several preservatives to keep from going foul in the form of sodium benzoate and pottasium sorbate and several others which are all contained in hydroguards inhert ingredients that they don’t advertise.you can actually source baccilus amyloliquefacians for super cheap I have loads of it and subtilus infact I pay 20 dollars for a kilo that has 100 billion cfu/g per a kilo that equates to 10 million 1 litre bottles of hydroguard .another thing to watch is if you have baccilus amyloliquefacians and it smells rotten that means its gone bad should not have any foil smell whats so ever or its gone bad and you need to throw it out also don’t ever freeze it or let it get to hot or it will die it is however resistant to certain levels of acid and chemical nutrients so can be used with any tyoe of olant nutrient whether it be organic or chemical . I own a nutrient company and we are releasing something called Canadian shield bac guard which will be the same as hydroguard but 5 times stronger and half price
Myco Gold from Biostim in Qld, more in it than Great White, $92 for a kilo
