Here I go again - this time w/ White Widow and a better room

FEMINIZED White Widow, from ILGM…
(order # 318913)
Seems to be some confusion, I saw in my email mention of an order # 368178 listing 5 WW (F)
~ I thought I got the above number from the received packet…

For some time I have dreamed of creating a full “Grow Room” dedicated to plants only - and it seemed to me the thing of all things would be to make all surfaces reflective. To this end, there is a stuff you can get from AMAZON that is a one hundred foot roll of 48" wide 100% light reflective material, that can be cut to drape right down any wall surface. It can be fixed to a 4 x 8 foot panel of 1/8" veneer or panelling using simple adhesives, though I prefer to use clear silicone with a few stables to hold it in place as it cures - on the side panels.

For the ceiling I lay a panel down on the floor, lay out and cut the “SILVERING” for the panel, and then glue it on and let it dry while laying flat. This panel can then be tacked to the ceiling with a Bostitch stapler, or whatever

~ The floor can have cheap space blankets rolled out on it, with carpet protector strips to prevent foot traffic from messing them up.

I still have not completed everything, and I kinda don’t want to say too much here, since it is still not legal where i am. It would be bad for someone not “Stooled to the 420 Society” to see a picture and think: “I know who that guy is…”

~ This panel is having a space blanket glued onto the BACKSIDE of it, to provide insulation that no one will ever know is there.
I had to repair some wall panels, and this was an idea that makes it even tighter against thermal and moisture issues I thought

This is still ‘in process’ but in the meantime I sent for another Morsen M series 1500 watt (EQ - 280 actual) full spectrum array, because out of the two light arrays I have, the plants all turn towards THAT ONE!

~ Which tells me they like it…

At any rate, those arrays on Amazon are now $139.oo USD where originally they were $150 or so.

I began a year or so back with a single 1200W (EQ) led array, and Jack Herer did reasonably well.

I have come to the belief now that the light I had shining down was just not enough, and there are more issues with small and confined spaces. When things change, they tend to change quick. In a larger space, there is time to correct a bad humidity, or dry plants thing.

  • When you have many plants growing together, they seem to do better. It is almost as if they relax, because they have company of their own specie…

I added a Morsen M series 1500W (EQ) and I saw that the plants actually responded to this “Full Spectrum” array by GROWING TOWARDS IT

I’m being completely candid here, the plants actually turned their leaves towards that one, which has an IR, UV, and extra RED wavelength LED’s in it, as I remember.

The original one they almost totally ignore.

For this reason, I just sent for another one just like it. For this next attempt I have available:
1200W x 1
1500W x 2
a pair of blue floods
a 250W Sylvania IR floodlight (not used continuously/reserved)

And then the reflective material to turn it all into a “Martian Habitat”

  • Ventilation is another story, there were existing roof vents that I will have fun with

When it’s done, it might be a blinding experience to take a flash photo in there…

FYI: Check this out -
The material is actually thicker than car window tint, and can be used on home windows and sliding glass doors for the obvious advantages

Horticultural 100% light reflective film
4 x 100 foot roll

~ I will have to take more pictures, the ones I had I deleted

~ It DOES NOT have an adhesive backing on it, you have to work that out for yourself

FRANK frickkin’ OUT 4 now…

(ciao, peeplezzz)

    Holy smoke! The price of a roll is now around thirty bucks - it has gone down! That much of THAT material is easily worth fifty…

You figure that with 8 foot tall walls, four feet wide, a 100 foot roll can cover 96 feet, or TWELVE wall panels of the average kind…

  • I have nothing to do with Amazon or the Manufacturer or Seller.
    This is not an advertisement, but Robert? This could be another “stuff” that you could offer.

I mean that sincerely…


Order number 318913 (interesting coincidence, for any numerologists out there) arrived at 5PM 25JAN2019

~ordered on New Years Day

I instantly set them into a sprouting tray with a clear cover, vented so it doesn’t get too wet in there


*Snack trays like that, from caterers, are priceless and shouldn’t be wasted. It was originally full of finger foods…

  • The two humidifiers you see above are made by Honeywell for home humidification, and are managed with an ‘INKBIRD’ controller

On a side note (and the reason I am sprouting them this way and at once) my prior order of Blue Haze completely failed.

The first two sprouts got over fertilized, I realize now. But after they went bad I put the last three in soil. I think they must have been exposed to heat or something on the way here because one is failing while the remaining two are growing so slowly I doubt they will come to much of anything.

(those last two sprouts have been sprouts for over a week, and have still only got two tiny little first leaves)

~Long time sprouting as well. Should Robt & Co decide to send a replacement Jack Herer fem would be preferable since I am totally disenchanted with Amnesia Haze strains or anything hybridized with a landrace type

That is not a complaint, mind. Sometimes the dice come up “snake eyes”, it just happens

But I have also gone quite a bit further in prepping the soil. I fully expect my Widows to pop up in record time

~FF sendz

PS: STA Green should always be mixed 50/50 with neutral soil, and because it is a slow release fertilizer containing blend (even though organic) it may be a poor choice after all

This time around I fixed the PH ahead of time

PPS: It turns out “dimgogo” was only a seller on Amazon, the lights I prefer are actually made by “Morsen”

The ‘M’ series are the ones I like, I have two 1500W arrays, and am looking at the next more powerful ones as upgrades

I’ll be using that link myself, since Amazon doesn’t show all the lights they make

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The center seed (marked 3 above) is sprouting, no doubt the rest are right behind it!

ET: 3 days


29Jan2019: All five seeds are sprouting, 100% germination!!!

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I’d have edited the above, but this is an update.

Something is still not right with my sprouting technique and or soil composition. I still have three very slow growing Blue Haze sprouts (less than 2" tall still…) and one of the five WW(F) sprouts is doing good

Of the other four, one is definitely dead. Three others may pop up, but who knows.

I now have a larger room and weeded out any lights that failed to match the Morsen arrays I now have:
1 3000 Watt EQ
2 1500 Watt EQ

There’s a 1200 Watt array that the plants don’t seem to notice as much as the Morsen lights, perhaps because it is not full spectrum (the Morsens include IR and UV)

I have noticed that the plants I have and have had before ALL grow towards the Morsen arrays

  • They also like a 250W IR heat lamp I have, it’s a floodlight bulb in a common screw fixture

And I have a 48" flourescent fixture, but no growlight tubes for it. But those lights I have retired for now.

In the meantime, I am gradually converting the entire room to silver walls and ceiling using window film as wallpaper, with space blankets to cover the floor. The efficiency of the entire grow space will increase radically once this is completed

THIS I can tell you, the WW (fem) sprout is getting some interestingly fat leaves…
In fact the first two leaves after the Cotylidon or ‘seed’ leaves looked like they almost split in to 3 leaf fans

  • Five gallon bottles on the lower right are rainwater collected by standing them in the rain with a funnel in their tops. Both jugs are certified Polycarbonate

The white widow sprout is in the large container in the center. Total wattage is 4500 (EQ) and about 1200 actual. What this means at 120VAC US power is that the entire array right now draws 10 amperes. On the far right - the other 1500W(EQ) array is off, because there are no green sprouts yet.

Total wattage draw (actual) possible at the moment is round about 460 X 2 + 560 or right at 1480 true
This means an absolute draw of around 1480/120V or 12 and a third amperes on a 120VAC circuit

Left and right of the WW container you see the tops of Honeywell Humidifiers controlled by an INKBIRD RH% manager. The left has a white top, the other black - so you can spot them

I shot this pic while standing behind a small fan that swivels back and forth over the line of them to spread out the mist from the electronic humidifiers

FAR LEFT: Belgian Giant tomato plants, growing in FEBRUARY!!!

"Yeah, I guess you can say I have a green thumb. Provided it ain’t up me backside…" :roll_eyes:

  • Something else I do is set up the lights to be on at night. In winter, it warms the room when it needs it the most. In summer, it helps reduce the cooling costs, THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX!
    ~it don’t have to be daytime just because 'tis outside


PS: The manufacturer of these arrays recommends at least a 15 minute “OFF” time after 12 hours. This is managed by staggering the off times of the several lighting arrays so that it does not happen all at once during a 16 to 18 hour cycle

I honestly imagine that the plants see it as a cloud passing over…

Electricity Math:
WATTS divided by VOLTAGE equals AMPERES
~You need to know that so you don’t blow breakers or (worse yet) fuzes

If you didn’t know that, there 'tis :+1:

WATTAGE is directly additive. 1200 watts plus 1200 watts is 2400 watts, no matter what uses it or how
It’s a measure of total power consumed

Keep an eye on that! Last thing you need is to get busted by the fire brigade of all people…

Been some problems, but I have a healthy White Widow, and three blue haze plants (one of them is in rough shape)

I’m looking into “neutral” soil, and just sent for the 5 plant ILGM nute set

  • and a hoodie…
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I’m going to have to study ‘cloning’ this time around because of my sprout losses due to a not very great seed starting method and hassles with the grow room possibly as well.

But the White Widow plant is the most vigorous I have seen so far, with amazingly fat, lush leaves. So -
when it comes time my intention is to top it in the classic way, and then do my very best to root the top that I remove so that I gain an entire additional plant in the process!

I’m in love with this plant, it’s the best ever…

  • Leaf count on the fans is 9 already, I wonder if it will reach 11

23 March 2019
Looking back, I think the seedling stage must have been completed on or about February 18th or 19th.

So three weeks later on March 12th they first got a taste of Bergmans “Growtime” formula.
On the 19th they got feeding #2 of the same, and on the 20th of March I received and set up the grow tent, which is a 96" by 48" (four by eight) by 80" tall proper grow tent from Vivosun

The mattress on the floor is a new one waiting for the bedframe to be assembled. Next to the inlet vent at bottom left is an empty 5 gallon grow bag, that should show the scale of everything.

Inside the vent I have an Inkbird controlled Honeywell humidifier directly in the incoming air flow

This is in the right hand ‘Peekaboo’ window when I lift away the cover flap.
I have an Inkbird heating and cooling controller arriving today that will enable me to set the intake fan to come on at a set temperature which will be placed next to these.

Now, I topped the plant about three days ago. Here she is

And here is the cutting I took from it (the top) which I dipped in rooting powder and have been misting - at times with Bergmans Seedling fertilizer, more often with plain water so it isn’t overdone.

It has survived so far, though it seems to be having a bit of a rough go. I reckon if I top the Widow that comes from it a month from now I shall have a new plant each month, and thus a continuous run of plants from one month to the next.

Here finally is a pic of one of my Blue Haze plants which were begun well before the White Widow, but they are beginning to catch up!

What I have noticed is that they do not seem to have dry leaves as my earlier attempts did, they have much larger and fatter leaves, and have spread out quite wide right down to the soil level. In fact some of the bottom leaves lay on the ground at the tips

~CIAO for now, FF

If I’m calling 29 January the official sprout date, on 26 March the White Widow will be 8 weeks old.

The seedling stage ended on 19 February (three weeks) due mostly to poor soil and sprouting technique.

The 26th of March makes the veggy stage five weeks - but the veg stage can be longer or shorter depending on the plant growth in response to conditions it is growing in, so it is variable

~So the question is if I want to launch it into flower at that time, or do I want it to maybe grow for a while longer, get bigger before doing so. I think the bigger and healthier it is the more bud(s) I’ll have for all of my efforts, but at the same time the grow method and tent have been greatly upgraded in the meantime. In fact the tent itself is a brand new addition.

The next grow will be the top of this one, so it will go right 'round the sprouting stage entirely

  • By the way, I’ve settled on 16 hours of light per day on this batch

I got the temperature controller, and its set for 75. The more consistent I can make the grow space, the better results I should have.

I never dreamed a year ago that I would go this far - but the whole thing is almost automated now, and it looks like the WW top is recovering from it’s drastic treatment

Looking at it, I can see that the center is now reaching toward the light and the rest of it is much less “Droopy”

I think it’s going to fully recover and make it!

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LST in Depth… I found this article a great resource.
full article here…

I’ve seen something like that - it’s been discussed many times on ILGM.

On one of my grows, I used stakes around the outside of the container and long pipe cleaners to bend the branches outward so that they sort of “Stuck out around” the fan leaf clusters. I laid them at pretty much 90 degrees to the stem or flat to the ground and that allowed them to clear the fan leaves that were covering them.

But it led to another problem! Branches above were shading out branches below - so now I had to pull some clockwise and others anti-clockwise in order to spread them out. In the end I decided:
“MEH! What for am I making things needlessly complicated?”

A fundamental tenet to the philosophy of “Work WITH Nature, not against it” is that the plant itself knows what it needs, what it needs to do, and they have been doing so for uncounted centuries before you and I decided to meddle with them…

I was looking today into where I was going to put the clone when I switch over the rest of the plants to 12/12 and begin giving them Flowertime and Plant Boost (two more of Roberts formulas). To my horror I found I had run through my tax return like water, so I need to go another week with “Growtime” so that I can set up a closet or something for the clone. I get paid once a month - but I’m so close now to a truly ideal setup, I just need a few more components like timers and things, a biggy but a cheapy is going to be ducting the outflow so that it goes up in the attic and out a gable end so that the smell is far enough above ground to never be noticed. Alternately I can vent it out a window, and grow lots of fragrant plants out in the ‘visible’ garden to mask whatever scent it adds.

Basil and many other spices are good for that, and also yield the benefit of fresh from the garden spices that are unbelievably better than anything from a store! There is a patch in my yard where basil has in fact spread out like weeds, and this year I am adding plenty of Dill spice and Oregano

I had planned all along to breed rare varieties of ferns, and I noticed just today that many flower plants are noted for “Very Strong Fragrance”, among them are catnip (which also grows wild now, thanks to little old me) and many others. I wonder if my neighbors would flip if I began cultivating unique varieties of Roses?

That’s the thing about this hobby, as we learn to grow more and better plants we tend to install things around the place that come back on their own without reinvesting. A Rose bush will do that, so will many kinds of herbs. I just wish I could grow orange and lemon trees but the winters here forbid it

Morning of 25March2019

Today I measured the plant so I can consider “To flower, or not to flower” with some hard data
From the soil to the top it is only 19" tall, but it’s more than 24" wide!

Tomorrow it is due for it’s next feeding and I am solid with the idea that it needs more veg time, it can be much taller than this before going to flower, so the clone is safe in there for now.

That planter is at least 6 or 7 gallon, the tray under it is a cover from an industrial light but it makes a great basin. Balancing humidity is the tricky part right now, but the 1 1/2 gallon sprayer next to it is what I use to mist everything. It has plain water at 6.5 PH in it, nothing else. This means I can fill it once a day and mist all 5 plants (including the clone) more than adequately. The 2 gallon green watering can next to it is for actual soil, and I read the soil moisture with a meter. Misting them and keeping the humidity up in there has kept the soil very moist, perhaps too much so, and I am careful about it now. There is also a plant in a five gallon bucket in there - one of the surviving Blue Haze plants - and it is the only one that seems to become dry on a regular basis.

Soon the temperatures will start to become an issue. At night right now there are still some days that will be in the thirties or forties, but as the summer heat comes in I may need to invest in another window air unit for that room. I cool my home with a single window unit in a different room for now, and hang curtains to serve as temperature barriers in the hallway. The common areas I don’t worry about - my electricity bill I do! It’s essentially a three bedroom house.

Again, I have 4500 Watts (equivalent) of Morsen LED lights in there, which is a four foot by eight foot 80 inch tall tent. 80 inches is six feet eight inches, so there is plenty of room for them to get taller.

If I had all of this assembled when I began this grow, as well as the plant food, there’s no telling how big it would already be. But the veg stage can always be extended so long as I have no fears of discovery and with this arrangement NOBODY is going to see anything even a little suspicious, and I can lock the door to that room. It’s the master bedroom, so it’s nobodies business but mine…

What the clone will be like I dunno. With the right nutes and another tent just for baby plants I expect much better results especially in the vegetative phase. I think a Morsen 1500W “M” series in a 4 x 4 tent with a humidifier and air control based on temperature will do it.

~Ciao 4 now

PS: I looked into the plant deeply yesterday, and discovered I had actually topped it at it’s eighth node

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I got a second tent today and set it up for one of my Blue Haze plants and the top from the Widow.

I now have the main WW (f) and two fairly nice Blue Haze plants on 12/12 lighting and the other two are still on 18/6 in the new and smaller tent.

This will position me to have at least one set in VEG while having two older groups doing the “BUD Thang…” in the four by eight tent. It will be a while before I have all of the gimmicks I need for the new tent, and I still have some items I want or need for the main bloom tent, but this is way cool…

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Like I was saying, one tent is for youngsters, the other is for large plants going into flower

Tent #1 was a Vivosun 96x96x80(tall) incher

Tent #2 is a Vivosun 48x48x80 inch tent

I really don’t think you can beat the quality of them for the price…


Today is the second feeding for the plants on 12/12 using Bergmans “Flowertime” plant food. I have to wait for 6PM for the lights to come on. I know that there are many yellowed leaves on it, and I will be doing a trim on the WW. The Blue Haze plants both seem to be steaming along with no drying out problems at all. Both strains feminized, but not autoflower - had they been autoflower with the problems I had with my sprouting and seedling/early veg stages it would have left them short when the flower cycle began…

  • A good reason for a beginner to avoid ‘autoflower’ I suppose. With non-autoflower you have the choice to let them veg for as long as it takes to get up to speed.

The white widow is quite a bush, and I wonder what eight weeks of flower followed carefully with this online grow journal will do in terms of total size. I think that with all of the changes, and playing ‘catch up’ with my growing facilities, that I have never yet produced a truly decent sized set of plants. My last harvest was a mere three ounces - and it went pretty quick I can tell you…

I am very much looking forward to seeing what happens this go around, as the WW has formed a nicely shaped bush that if it grows tall and well formed buds ought to be tremendously beyond all of my previous efforts.

Later tonight I promise to get some pictures, hopefully in “normal” light rather than Martian

~til later…

1 May, 2019 Update

~ I think my next grow journal will begin on the day of seed-tail appearance and then be weekly

This is the end of the fourth week of flower stage, and the day after feeding #5 with Bergmans Flowertime
First pic is from yesterday

As the plant(s) go into flower, the entire chemistry of the plant changes. Where before the damaged or dried leaves that are trimmed away or that drop off have no potency at all, once the plant goes into flower THC is developed in different strengths throughout. It THEN becomes possible to get a mild buzz from the trimmings but not before

*Last image is un-retouched except to reduce size

What I wonder now is when the blue haze plants will change color, that will be interesting. But what you see here (other new growers like me take note) is what the buds look like when only half the way along. What shall occur in the next four weeks is the finale as far as the feeding chart goes - and I dunno if I will extend the grow beyond that or not. The main thing though is not to cut it too short, and by going with the feeding chart as my calendar metric this will be certain.

  • If you right click on any of these images you can download them as a 1920 x 1280 desktop background



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What is real interesting is that the White Widow plant is close to being on track with the Bergman’s Plant Food Feeding Chart - but the Blue Haze plants were started weeks earlier

ALL of them I drove into flowering at the same time though, I wasn’t even sure the Blue Haze plants were going to make it…

But I’m sure I commented earlier that I have never seen a plant (of my own) grow so … “ROBUSTLY” as the White Widow has. That just amazes me, so I think that I want to specialize in it for now as I fine tune what I am doing.

I am gradually collecting up a set of five ‘Laundry Tubs’ that will be the spill-proofing for a set of fifteen (!) gallon fabric pots. The thing is - fifteen gallon fabric planters are not really that much bigger than the five gallon ones in actual dimensions, and may not even hold as much as they say. What they really go by is a generic size, and when the new fabcon’s arrive I will test fit them and show you in pictures how that works out.

I have long held the belief that the roots and their space are one of the single greatest keys to plant size and health. You can have a beautiful plant of any size, but the ancient art of Bonsai is done by manipulating the roots of plants - if that doesn’t start you thinking nothing will. All house plants grow to the size of the container that they are in, they can grow no further.

INDOOR pot plants have a general rep for being smaller than those grown outside, and we can argue back and forth about the relative strengths and weaknesses of various kinds of lights (I favor LED lights because of the matched light spectrum possibilities) and environments impact on the plants, but what I have seen with local growers is that they do not even know about soil composition - so what they get with guerrilla grows is stuff subject to plain silt with no nutes at all. The last I sampled from someone who had any around here I would rate at one step above a resin buzz…

They also seem to be too paranoid to let theirs go to full maturity…

I could go on and on about the “Wildwood Weed” crowd where I am at, but why? Some people just have not discovered the internet so far, or they have and they think it’s a place to just rip music from. (or look at porn) The advanced ones are all into video games, but to each their own life

Anyway, more root room is better. HYDRO has it over SOIL because the hydro solution and oxygen can get all the way into the roots, yet the roots need less space and have no need to waste strength pushing dirt out of the way. Iam going to look into hydro, but am stepping back and looking at the entire hydro method before jumping into it.

It has taken a while just to ‘spin up’ to MJ growing with traditional methods, so I am not in a huge hurry just yet. There ARE several different methods of hydro grow, from “DEEP WATER” with air stones, to Dutch Buckets, and “AEROPONICS” which use a closed root container and misting nozzles to supply the roots.

All of it is fascinating - and you may have seen a cloning thing that I put together in a different thread:

(Rube Goldberg Description)
Aquarium Pump A) supplies air to Air Stone B) through air line C) which has been threaded through upside down 2-liter soda bottle top D). Plant Cutting E) is inserted through same opening as air tube, into Plant Food Solution F)


~Gotta figure, anything you buy in a container you are paying for the container as well, so you may as well use it for something

I HAVE REACHED THE POINT where I now must ask myself:
“Umm… What was I just talking about man???”

So that’s it for now :rofl:



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End of Fifth Week, 6th Feeding was 7 May
A pair of BG worthy pics here of how the buds are doing~

The top pic is a twin stemmed Blue Haze that still shows no sign of blue colors, just yellow/orange

Bottom pic is the White Widow shrub :wink: (shrub!) with about 3 weeks to go in theory…

Early in the 8th week of the flower cycle - I have heard that at the end they put on a big spurt of growth but I don’t see huge size with these buds, so I guess they are growing a bit slow

Been having camera trouble, this is the clearest shot out of eleven
~ a white widow (fem) top

I think these buds are no where near finished