Help with leaf damage


#1

Hi, I have a problem with leaves from the bottom to halfway up my plants. They start out turning yellow then die off. Check out photos below.

Some info on the Grow is:

In flower for 2 weeks
Soil- 50/50 Roots Organic + Coco Core
600 watt Metal Halide lights 12/12 on/off cycle
PH 6.5
Temp 82
Humidity 46
Fox Farm nutrient trio at 1/2 strength
Also, plants have been treated with Green Cleaner Spider Mite killer 2x in 7 day period (30 mins. before lights out).

Thanks for any help you can provide.

t


#2

It looks like more than one problem. I can tell that it has a calcium mag. deficiency but I have no idea about the black tips. Never saw that before. You may want to flush the plant with 1/2 your nutrient and cal mag. I am sorry about your spider mites. How bad are they? Could the Green Cleaner Spider Mite killer be hurting your plant? I was always instructed not to use insecticide during flowering. I don’t know what to tell you other than flush your plant and see if that helps. Spider mites are difficult to get rid of so before you grow you next plant make sure to disinfect everything in the growing area.


#3

I don’t think I’d spray a half hour before lights off ?


#4

That is what the instructions said. Would you care to elaborate as to why you wouldnt?


#5

Thanks for getting back to me! The mite problem was a small one, no webbing and only on one plant. But as you probably know, you can’t ignore them and hope they go away. So, I am now switching to a different method incase they become immune. As for the Green Cleaner, it is organic and according to the information from the manufacture it shouldn’t be harmful to your plants. It can be used all the way to harvest.

Won’t a potassium deficiency make the leaves die around the edges?


#6

I spray 5 minutes before I put the lights on and add fans for a good 10 minutes to make sure they’re dry, not like a jet dryer at the carwash or something but I want them dry within 10 minutes or so plus I leave fans in with them all the time anyway as well as the 220cfm Inlet fan

If it’s working for you by all means stay with it just a lot of people get light burn I don’t really see it but I don’t take the chances and I often raise the lights when I spray, when I remember to :slight_smile:
-good luck


#7

I see. Thanks for the info!


#8

@daj1227,

I must agree with @durabloom, plus I’m willing to bet thoughs leasves aren’t from the same plant .? Be honest or we can’t help
I won’ give an answer untill I know for sure.
Because as @durabloom said it looks to be more going on here

Will


#9

Garrigan62, Thank you for getting back to me and if you can help then by all means do so! First of all they happen to be from the same plant! 4 of the leaves are from the bottom and the other is from about midway up! So you would lose that bet! I tried to post photos that would show the whole problem! PS- do me a solid in future and don’t accuse me of being anything less than truthful! I don’t make it a habit of being a liar or miss leading!


#10

@daj1227
Hey bud,

Looks like you got a possibility of a plethora of problems. I’m just going to guess and say these all didn’t appear on the same day. My first guess would be a mishap in pH, as that’s the most common culprit for this. She showing signs of Calcium and Nitrogen uptake issues.

The other this is the support ticket is not complete. I can’t tell if she’s inside or out. I gonna assume inside, with a HID, but you never know.

Another thing you can do to help is post more pictures. I especially, but we’re all very picture friendly here on ILGM. One of the whole plant would really help.

I don’t see signs of mite damage one these leaves, so you must have taken care of it. I can’t stress enough, info, info, info; the more the better.

Good luck bud, I’m sure together, we’ll figure it out.


#11

@daj1227,

I apologize, i wasn’t trying to imply that you were. But I wasn’t the only one who thought the same thing. And I would like very t help you out.
I just needed to know if in deed they were from the same plant and they are…so with that said…

Problems with Magnesium being locked out by PH troubles

Light Acid Soils, soils with excessive potassium, calcium and or phosphorus

Soil

Magnesium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0-6.4
Magnesium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 . (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.

Solution to fixing a Magnesium deficiency
Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have Magnesium in them will fix a Magnesium deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
Other nutrients that have magnesium in them are: Epsom salts, which is fast absorption. Dolomite lime and or garden lime (same thing just called different) which is slow absorption. Sulfate of Potash, Magnesia which is medium absorption. Worm Castings, which is slow absorption. Crabshell which is slow absorption. Earth Juice Mircoblast, which is fast acting. (a must buy!! Has lots of 2ndary nutrients).
Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.

Hope this helps

Will


#12

Thanks for getting back to me! I have Earth Juice Cal-Mag, I also have the Epsom salts. My PH is at 6.5 isn’t that in the correct range? Am I understanding correctly that I have a Magnesium issue?

I have a hydro store near by so I can pick up the Microblast. But, this is the second time I have had a problem with nutrients in the flower cycle. Your advice has to date been spot on! Would you mind recommending a fertilizer and schedule that will eliminate this in the future?

This is very frustrating because I don’t usually have this type of problem! But I am new to growing this crop and would seem that I have a lot to learn! Lol

I am obviously doing something wrong here! I am using the Fox Farm trio at 1/2 strenght. I have always used an organic fertilizer called Golden Harvest, but they have shut down there web site and i havent been able to find something comparable to it. Fox Farm nutrients was recommended to me by the guy at the hydro store. He has suggested that my problem was from mixing the Roots Organic soil with the Coco core? That i needed to add more of the liquid fertilizer to make up for the lack of nutrients in the Coco core! What are your thoughts?


#13

I’m my experience, Magnesium deficiency symptoms display as interveinal chlorosis. I would not diagnose this as Magnesium issues.


#14

Can you calibrate your ph pen to check it? I have seen bad readings on those cause tons of ph issues.


#15

I want to preface this by saying that I’m seeing leaf spot fungus everywhere these days, so you’ll have to compile all available information and make a decision and then take appropriate measures

I hope it’s not but particularly that third pic, but all of them really …I pick them up off the floor en mas every day
-best wishes


#16

@Dumme, @daj122

@Dumme
This is one of the reasons why I choose mag. deficiency. But read it all the way through

Will

The edges will feel like dry and crispy and usually affects the lower leaves in younger plants, then will affect the middle to upper half when it gets older, but It can also happen on older leaves as well. The deficiency will start at the tip then will take over the entire outer left and right sides of the leaves. The inner part will be yellow and or brownish in color, followed by leaves falling without withering. The tips can also twist and turn as well as curving upwards as if you curl your tongues.

Excessive levels of magnesium in your plants will exhibit a buildup of toxic salts that will kill the leaves and lock out other nutrients like Calcium (Ca). Mg can get locked out by having too much Calcium, Chlorine or ammonium in your soil/water.
One of the worst problems a person can have is a magnesium def caused by a ph lockout. By giving it more magnesium to cure the problem when you are thinking you are doing good, but actually you are doing more harm then good. When the plants can’t take in a nutrient because of the ph being off for that element, the plant will not absorb it but it will be in the soil… therefore causing a buildup. A buildup will be noticed by the outer parts of the plant becoming whitish and or a yellowish color. The tips and part way in on the inner leaves will die and feel like glass. Parts affected by Magnesium deficiency are: space between the veins (Interveinal) of older leaves; may begin around interiorperimeter of leaf.

Problems with Magnesium being locked out by PH troubles

Light Acid Soils, soils with excessive potassium, calcium and or phosphorus

Soil

Magnesium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0-6.4
Magnesium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 . (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.

Hydro and Soil less Mediums

Magnesium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0-5.7
Magnesium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.8-9.1
(Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.

Solution to fixing a Magnesium deficiency
Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have Magnesium in them will fix a Magnesium deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
Other nutrients that have magnesium in them are: Epsom salts, which is fast absorption. Dolomite lime and or garden lime (same thing just called different) which is slow absorption. Sulfate of Potash, Magnesia which is medium absorption. Worm Castings, which is slow absorption. Crabshell which is slow absorption. Earth Juice Mircoblast, which is fast acting. (a must buy!! Has lots of 2ndary nutrients).
Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.

Calcium (Ca) -Macro Nutrient and an Immobile element.

Calcium is another important element that helps the plants cell walls, cell division in making the plants stems, stalks, branches stronger, as well as contributing to root growth, mostly the newer root hairs, Calcium also helps enhancing the uptake of K in the the plants roots. Calcium moves really slow within the plant and tends to concentrate in roots and older growth.

When plants exhibit a Calcium deficiency the younger leaves are the first to show it as well as older leaves. The Leaf tips will die back, the tips may curl, and growth of the plant is stunted. The plant can show a weakness in the stems and branches, as well as a under developed root system that can lead to bacteria problems with roots dieing off. Having slow plant transpiration rates can aggravate the uptake of calcium. Make sure your soil isn’t very acidic, for calcium gets harder to be absorbed through acidic soils, Which leads to having a plant that is deficient in Calcium. The leaf tips, edges and new growth will or may turn a yellow/brown color that happen in spots and often surrounded by a sharp brown outlined edge and then the leaf tips die back. If too much calcium is given at an early stage of growth it can stunt the growth of your plants. Having to much of calcium will also flocculate when a concentrated form is combined with potassium. The parts affected by a calcium deficiency are the roots. Stem or petiole, young or old leaves.

Too much Calcium will lead to other micronutrient deficiencies. Calcium fixation is caused by many types of mediums such as: clay soils, unbuffered coco and humus. The lime tends to bond to these soils very easily. The stems of the plant will not be able to hold the plant up and will exhibit a white brown in between the veins of the leaves when having too much calcium. Also having to much potassium and or nitrogen will cause a calcium lockout.

Problems with Calcium being locked out by PH troubles

Very acidic soils with excessive potassium, dry and or wet soil. Lack of calcium in the soil may cause too acidic soil. This may cause to Mg or Iron deficiency or very slow stunted growth

Soil

Calcium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0- 6.4
Calcium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a
Calcium Deficiency.

Hydro and Soil less Mediums

Calcium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0- 5.3
Calcium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.4-5.8 (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Calcium Deficiency.

Solution to fixing a Calcium deficiency
To fix a calcium deficiency you can treat by foliar feeding with one teaspoon of dolomite lime or Garden lime per quart of water, Or Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have Calcium in them will fix a Calcium deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
Or you can take crushed up dolomite lime or garden lime in a gallon of water and water it in the soil. 1 to 2 teaspoons per gallon of water, which will be slow acting. Garden Gypsum, which is medium absorption. Limestone, which is medium absorption, Rock Phosphate and Animal wastes which are both medium/slow absorption. Note: Caution when using gypsum to an already acid soil (pH that is less than 5.5) can have a very bad effect on different types of plants by effecting the absorption of soil aluminum, which is poison to plant roots.

Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics, (which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) you need to flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excess Zinc (Zn) Micro Nutrient and an Immobile element.

Zinc plays a lot of roles in the plants, first off zinc aids in the plants size and maturity as well as production of leaves, stalks, stems and branches. Zinc is an essential component in many enzymes as well as growth hormone auxin .Low auxin levels can be the cause of stunting of the plants leaves and the shoots. Zinc is also important in the formation and activity of chlorophyll. Plants that have a good level of Zinc, can handle long droughts. So that’s why Zinc plants an important role how it absorbs moisture.

Zinc deficiencies on some plants will have the Spotting and bleached spots (chlorosis) between the veins first appears on the older leaves first, and then goes on to the immature leaves. It will then start to slowly affect tips of growing points of the plants. When the zinc deficiency happens so suddenly, the spotting can appear to be the same symptoms to that of an iron and manganese, without the seeing the little leaf symptom.
Zinc is not mobile in plants so the symptoms will occur mainly in the newer growths. Having a plant that is deficiency in Zinc can cause small crops, short shoots and have a cluster of small distorted leaves near the tips. Between the veins (Interveinal) yellowing is often combined with overall paleness. Pale or grayish, yellowing between the veins; rosetted weak is the signs of a Zinc deficiency.
With a low level of zinc in your plants, your yields will be dramatically reduced.
Interveinal chlorosis is present in the small, narrow distorted leaves at the ends of really shortened shoots and the shortening between internodes. Leaf margins are often distorted or wrinkled. These nutrients will get locked out due to high pH: Zinc, Iron, and Manganese. These deficiencies will often occur together. Parts affected by a zinc deficiency are young leaves and petioles.

Having an excess of Zinc is very rare, but when it does happen it can cause wilting and in worse cases death.

Problems with Zinc being locked out by PH troubles

High ph, Low organic matter, High Phosphorus levels in the soil, and or lack of nitrogen.

Soil

Zinc gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 4.5-4.7, 7.5-9.5
Zinc absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 5.0-7.0 (Wouldn’t recommend having a soil ph of over 7.0 in soil) Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Zinc Deficiency.

Hydro and Soil less Mediums

Zinc gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.7-8.5
Zinc is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 4.0-5.5 (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Zinc Deficiency.

Solution to fixing a Zinc deficiency
Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have potassium in them will fix a Zinc deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
And any of the following nutrients will fix a zinc deficiency: Zinc sulfate, zinc chelated, or zinc oxides are adequate fertilizer sources for zinc. Or you can bury galvanized nails in the soil. (Make sure you take off the sharp point at the end to prevent roots from being damaged) Garden Manure, which is slow acting. Greensands, Cottonseed Meal are both medium/slow absorption as well.

Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutriens.

So in short one deficiency can and some times dose look like another deficiency.
And very well may cause other deficiency’s by locking them out.

So its very important to check the P H !

Will.


#17

Wow I will have to get some of that green cleaner. I agree with you that you just can’t ignore the mites because they won’t go away and the are very resistant. I still think that you should flush the plant. It will really help. Add some hydrogen peroxide too. That will get oxygen to the roots. 6.5 ph is perfect for almost all strains. I test my water that has been sitting for more than 5 days because the air contains CO2, which is dissolved in the water and produces acidic conditions. Just like acid rain. This is off the subject but I had one of my plants turn into a hermaphrodite and pulled it. I never knew that hermaphrodite plants produce only female seeds. Interesting.