First season, starting late, outdoor South Australia

garrigan62 · February 28, 2018, 3:33am

I going to post the support Ticket on another post or reply ok so look for it after these two posts

That sure looks like Nitrogen Toxicity to me…here check my pic out…

They look a lot a like to me and that’s why I say it’s

Nitrogen Toxicity

Nitrogen Toxicity - too much nitrogen - Cannabis growing problem, Problem: D ark green leaves, shiny leaves, clawing, weak stems, and overall slow growth. Marijuana leaves that are nitrogen toxic often get “The Claw” or talon-like leaves that are bent at the ends. They also do an odd curving (or cupping) that is often mistaken for overwatering, but is unique to nitrogen toxicity. You can see a “clawing” leaf pictured to the right and more pictures below (click each picture for a close-up).

Leaves that turn into claws often start turning yellow and dying if the nitrogen toxicity is not treated, much like a nitrogen deficiency, only the leaves will continue to get more and more clawed. Leaves eventually turn yellow or brown and fall off. You can tell if yellowing is caused by too much nitrogen because the rest of the plant will be dark green, and the yellowing leaves will turn into claws first.

The majority of times that growers encounter problems with nitrogen, it’s from giving too much of it to their plants.

Many new growers accidentally give their plants give too much Nitrogen, especially in the flowering stage. This results in dark, shiny, clawing leaves.

A Nitrogen toxicity can also cause certain leaves to turn yellow, but other than that it looks nothing like a cannabis nitrogen deficiency?

Your plant needs a lot of nitrogen in the vegetative stage, and it’s generally hard to give too much as long as you’re not going completely overboard with nutrients. Nitrogen is a big part of what makes leaves green, and is incredibly important to the process of photosynthesis (making energy from light).

But cannabis plants need relatively low levels of Nitrogen in the second half of the flowering/budding stage. While your plants still need N (nitrogen) during flowering, too much N at this stage will prevent your plants from forming buds properly, resulting in lower yields, less potency and possibly inferior buds.

This is why it’s important to avoid any type of “time-release” nutrients or soil (for example, standard Miracle-Gro soil) as they will keep giving your plant a lot of N even after its started flowering.

When it comes to nitrogen, this is what your plant needs:

Vegetative Stage - higher levels of Nitrogen (pretty much any plant food will do)

Most complete plant foods that you get at a gardening store contain high levels of nitrogen (N). These nutrient systems tend to work well in the vegetative stage.

Some examples of cannabis-friendly one-part Vegetative nutrient systems…

Dyna-Gro “Foliage Pro”

General Hydroponics “FloraNova Grow”

Pretty much any complete plant food

Flowering Stage - lower levels of Nitrogen (use “Bloom” or Cactus nutrients)

It’s extra important to find a nutrient system with lower levels of nitrogen for the last part of your plant’s life. Many “Bloom” or “Flowering” style base nutrients are just the ticket.

Some examples of good one-part Flowering nutrient systems…

Dyna-Gro “Bloom”

General Hydroponics “FloraNova Bloom”

If you can’t order online and can’t find a good one-part base Bloom formula locally, you do have other choices. Though not an ideal choice, most Cactus plant foods will contain good nutrient ratios for growing cannabis during the budding stage. So in a pinch, you can use the cactus nutrients that can be found at most gardening stores.

Different strains react differently to nitrogen toxicity. Some plants get dark green leaves with no clawing. Some strains will get leaves that do the weird 90 degree bend at the tips, while other strains or individual plants start curling like claws and then turn yellow / brown and fall off like a deficiency. Yet these are all signs of too much nitrogen.

Signs of Nitrogen Toxicity

This marijuana plants has been fed too much Nitrogen Dark green leaves and foliage

Leaf tips may turn down, without signs of overwatering.

You may notice yellowing on the affected leaves or other signs of nutrient deficiencies as time goes on

Nitrogen toxicity is often but not always accompanied by nutrient burn

The Claw often seems random, affecting leaves here and there

Heat and pH problems will make the clawing worse, as they stress out the plant and lower her defenses, and cause her to drink more water (and uptake more N)

As time goes on, the claw leaves will eventually start turning yellow, getting spots, and dying

This marijuana plants has been fed too much nitrogen

garrigan62 · February 28, 2018, 3:44am

@Powaforce

This is part two, But it was quite large so i cut it into two parts for ya.

Will

Solution: Reduce the Nitrogen your plant is getting!

Reduce the amount of nitrogen that is being fed to the plants. If you are feeding extra nutrients, cut down that amount. If you are in the flowering / budding stage, make sure you’re using a formula that’s specifically meant for flowering, or else it could have too much nitrogen.

If you are not feeding extra nutrients, you may have “hot” soil that has been giving your plants extra nutrients. In that case, flush your plants with filtered, pH’ed water to help clear out the extra nitrogen.

Effected leaves likely won’t recover, but you should see the problem halt with no new leaves being affected.

Wait! I’m not sure if it’s Nitrogen toxicity!

Nitrogen toxicity in marijuana makes clawed leaves that look like talonsOk, you ruled out overwatering, now what?

When I first got started growing, everyone kept telling me that this particular kind of leaf clawing was caused by under or overwatering my plants, pH problems, or heat problems.

Yet in my case, I knew that it wasn’t over or under watering (I was growing in hydro, where roots grow directly in water and air stones are constantly adding oxygen). I knew it wasn’t pH (my reservoir water had the right pH) and I knew it wasn’t heat since the grow area was slightly cooler than room temperature.

So then what was really causing my claw leaves?

It’s understandable that other growers were mistaken. It is true that many stresses will make any other problem worse.

Plus overwatering can cause a similar kind of leaf clawing (learn more below). And if you do have nitrogen toxicity, than heat or pH problems will make the problem much worse.

Now, you may or may not know that marijuana (or any plant) needs an element known as “Nitrogen” to grow.

In fact, nitrogen is one of the 3 nutrients that are included in almost every kind of plant food.

When looking at plant nutrients, you’ll almost always see 3 numbers listed, like 3-12-6 or 5-10-5. These numbers represent the ratio of Nitrogen (N), Phosphorous (P) and Potassium (K) contained in the bottle. Just about all plant life on Earth needs these 3 elements to grow.

See the nutrient numbers listed on the front?

The very first number, “3” in the case of the picture to the right, always displays the proportion of nitrogen in this nutrient bottle compared to the other 2 nutrients (Phosphorus and Potassium respectively).

The reason nitrogen is in all plant nutrient formulations is because it’s vital to plant processes.

For marijuana plants, when they don’t get enough nitrogen, the bottom leaves start turning yellow and dying. Left unchecked, a nitrogen deficiency can cause the whole plant to eventually die.

However, this time we’re the dealing with the opposite problem: nitrogen toxicity, or too much nitrogen.

Why You Should Treat And Prevent Nitrogen Toxicity

Marijuana plants that get too much Nitrogen in the vegetative stage don’t grow as vigorously.

Too much nitrogen is especially harmful in the flowering stage, because this will cause your plant to produce much smaller buds.

If you react quickly and reduce your nitrogen levels at the first sign of toxicity, your plant will quickly recover.

Wrote by Stitch
Posted by
Garrigan

garrigan62 · February 28, 2018, 3:49am

@Powaforce

Here is that Support Ticket It will help us even more THANK YOU SIR

Copy/Paste: This “Support Ticket” Into Your Forum Post.
Answer These Simple Questions The Best You Can.
If You Do Not Know, Or Do Not Use Something; Just Say So = Na

Strain; Type, Bag Seed, Or Na

Soil In Pots, Hydroponic, Or Coco?

System Type?

Ph Of Runoff Or Solution In Reservoir?

What Is Strength Of Nutrient Mix? Ec, Or Tds

Indoor Or Outdoor

Light System, Size?

Temps; Day, Night

Humidity; Day, Night

Ventilation System; Yes, No, Size

Ac, Humidifier, De-humidifier,

Co2; Yes, No

Add Anything Else You Feel Would Help Us Give You A Most Informed Answer. Feel Free To Elaborate, But Short, To The

Questions And Facts Will Help Us Help You

Powaforce · February 28, 2018, 8:38am

Strain - ilgm gold leaf
Soil - all purpose potting mix
Outdoor
Day temps between 28C-30C
Night temps 16C-22C
I’m feeding Thrive flower+fruit 14-2.6-21
And richgro phosphorus 0-15-0-0
About a scoop of each twice a week. I have to crunch up the phosphorus, perhaps this could be adding to the problem. I haven’t noticed clawing or dark green leaves but the occasional one has got a strange flick at the end of a finger of the leaves.

garrigan62 · February 28, 2018, 9:45am

@Powaforce

There ya go…it’s not Nitrogen Toxcity But Nitrogen Deficencey.

thJ9CM2H1T

First off, some interesting, basic facts…

Your marijuana plants need 18 essential elements. They get carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen from atmosphere and water. They get the 15 other elements via their roots. These elements are sometimes grouped as major, secondary, and trace elements. The groupings are determined by how much of each element is needed–some are needed a lot more than others, but all are necessary.

The major elements are nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium. The so-called secondary elements are magnesium, calcium, silicon, and sulfur. Some people group these seven elements as “macronutrients” because they’re required in larger weight amounts than the remaining essential elements your plants need. Those are called micronutrients, and they’re very important even though your plants don’t need as much of them. We’re talking about iron, zinc, copper, molybdenum, boron, manganese, cobalt, and chlorine.

Until recently, silicon wasn’t even included in the essential element list, but modern research on marijuana plants indicates your plants use silicon to build strong cell walls, resist pests and diseases, and to create THC glands.

Nutrients problems most likely to reduce growth rate, THC percentages, and harvest weight often involve nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and calcium. But problems with deficiency or excess of any of the 18 essential elements is likely to cause serious trouble for your marijuana plants.

How do you know your marijuana plants have nutrient deficiency or excess? Look at your leaves. If they’re not lime green, upright, and looking like the perfect marijuana leaf photo accompanying this article, your leaves are trying to tell you something.

But here’s a twist…it may not be your organic fertilizers, soil, or hydroponics nutrients that are actually causing the problem. Signs of nutrient element shortages or excess may merely be a symptom of the real cause of the problem. For example, low temperatures interfere with nutrient uptake. So you can’t solve a temperature-related nutrient deficiency problem by increasing your nutrients dosing…you solve the temperature problem instead, so your marijuana plants can take in what they need.

The Right Amount of Nitrogen
Makes Your Marijuana Healthy and Green

Nitrogen makes up 78% of the dry volume of our atmosphere and plants need to capture it if they want to grow at all.

No doubt you already know nitrogen is the big N in the N-P-K on your hydroponics nutrients bottles, and it’s a big, important ingredient for your marijuana growing success.

Unless your plants are in the final weeks of flowering phase, yellow leaves (especially lower leaves) are signs of trouble, and the troubles are most often a nitrogen deficiency. It starts with the bottom leaves and works its way up until only the newest growth is green.

On the other hand, if your marijuana plants are overdosing on nitrogen, the leaves will be extremely dark green.

Either way, nitrogen problems mean big trouble for your marijuana plants because nitrogen is absolutely necessary for plant survival because nitrogen is a primary elemental support for protein synthesis, growth, leaf development, metabolism, and root health.

If you oversupply nitrogen, you get marijuana plants that are too tall, thin, and gangly. It’s harder to get successful flowering from plants that have been overfed nitrogen.

If you see that the very tips of your leaves are yellow, that’s an almost sure sign of nitrogen deficiency, which occurs most often during a fast-moving grow phase or when you’ve switched to an improperly-configured bloom fertilizer during flowering. Many brands of hydroponics nutrients do not contain the right ratios of nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium, or they contain the elements in forms that are not easily available to your marijuana plants.

These potential nutrients problems are especially harmful in flowering phase, when your plants only have 12 hours to run their photosynthesis metabolism.

Nitrogen deficiencies first show up as leaf tip yellowing, especially on lower leaves. Then it spreads to affect entire leaves, and moves up the plant. When you do research on marijuana strains before you buy seeds or clones, take note of the strains that are said to be heavy feeding. Those will likely want higher parts per million of nutrients, and they are hogs for eating nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus. In bloom phase, your marijuana plants want less nitrogen, and more potassium and phosphorus.

The only time you tolerate signs of nitrogen deficiency is when you’re more than halfway through flowering phase. During those closing weeks, your marijuana plants are focusing on floral production so they sucks stored nitrogen out of leaves rather than doing the work of taking nitrogen in through the roots.

That’s why you don’t need to add extra nitrogen (beyond the amount found in a properly-configured flowering base nutrients product) to flowering crops after they’ve passed the midway point of flowering cycle: excess nitrogen during flowering negatively affects bud development, taste, and aroma.

Fixing Nutrients Problems to Save Your Marijuana Plants

In later articles in this series, you’ll see a more detailed program for analyzing and fixing marijuana nutrients problems but it’s important to understand a couple of things right away. One thing to know is that organic or “natural” fertilizers often fail to remediate a deficiency fast enough because they aren’t immediately bioavailable to your marijuana plants.

If you’re absolutely sure your marijuana root zone pH, grow environment, water, and other factors are what they should be, and your plants are still showing signs of nitrogen deficiency in soilless hydroponics marijuana growing, it almost has to be that something’s wrong with your base nutrients.

What are your remedies? If you’re growing in soilless hydroponics using synthetic hydroponics nutrients, you have it pretty easy.

First, make sure your pH meter is working perfectly (or use the new pH Perfect base nutrients that automatically buffer and adjust pH to the ideal sweet spot). Flush your plants (I prefer Final Phase or Flora Kleen), dump your reservoir, fill with reverse osmosis water, and feed with quality hydroponics base nutrients. When I say “quality hydroponics nutrients,” I mean a reliable brand of hydroponics base nutrients other than the brand you were using when the nutrients deficiency occurred.

You can also experiment with slight up and down adjustments of nutrients strength (ppm) or nutrients water pH and see if that corrects the problems. For example, many of us follow the dosage instructions on nutrients bottles and end up with 500+ ppm during flowering. In some cases, that’s too much, and what’s really strange is that using too much nutrients can result in nutrient deficiencies.

So try changing your dosage 50-100 ppm in either direction, and see if it makes a difference. Try adjusting you pH from 6.2 to 6.0. Different nutrients interact with root zone material and water differently, so that you might get absorption of 12 elements, but the pH is wrong for three other ones. Even small adjustments in pH (unless you’re using pH Perfect base nutrients in which case it doesn’t matter), can affect individual element’s absorption.

Powaforce · March 3, 2018, 1:30am

gold leaf that yellowing of the leaves is still there but ive given her some Charlie carp 10/2/6 to see if it is N deficiency.

Powaforce · March 3, 2018, 1:31am

strawb coming along nicely.

Powaforce · March 3, 2018, 1:54am

OK so yesterday I come home and looked up the tree to see Gale and she was cooked, looked like she hadn’t had water in ages, I’d hooked up a little pump to make it easier to water her, it worked great for a week or two but as it turns out the hose had kinked over the side of her pot so when you turn the pump on it fills up the clear hose all the way to the top and the extra pressure was pushing water out of a connection I had, which in turn was very lightly squirting the bottom of her pot, which then looked like she was dripping out of the bottom of the pot, and time to turn the pump off. She possibly had no water for a week or more. I obviously gave her a drink immediately but didn’t hold much hope for her. This morning although she looks like she went thru a tumble dryer her leaves that weren’t so heat buggered have, to my surprise, turned their heads up a little, some branches that got knocked over last week had shrivelled and died, their stems dry and easy snappers. Fingers crossed, but she’s proven so far to be a tough girl