I’m familiar, and have no issue with him doing what he has been doing. We just need to make sure that we are qualifying the information properly. His info says hlg-100 rspec 183 umols/s and wasn’t even measured by him. Sphere data says 213.9. This will throw off calculations on ppf/watt, and umol/$.
Imo, these lights not even worth calculating to this level. *** ppf average of 750 umols/s in 2x2 tent? What do numbers look like in 4x4 with hlg’s most efficient light instead of tiny space with their least efficient light?
Most lighting companies don’t even have proper equipment to test lights and still post results. Some probably send them out for testing but I know deep down some don’t. IMO
I felt that way for a while. Now I’m pretty sure most have their lights tested properly. They just won’t post results because nobody would buy them if we had apples to apples results to look at. You know as well as I that if we could be profitable selling same caliber of light we would be more than happy to prove it.
Wow what a fruitful discussion! Been a busy few days and I’m just getting a chance to check replies today, apologies for the slow responses. I really appreciate everyone’s feedback. More to come.
Hlg. Now here is a cool thing. Once you have the slates…lights are replaceble and bolt right on. 79 each for 288 rspec boards can get Bspecs/ Rspecs. Upfront cost higher but well built.Cali lightworks. Electric sky. Kingbrite. I also LOVE my little enfun boards. Give hlg 288 boards a flat out run for their money.
Going to try and do one big reply rather than individual ones so all the info is in one place. I took some time to better understand the various parameters and specs that different copanies use to try and sell grow lights, which definitely helped clear some things up for me–albeit more of the bare bones stuff. I found this to be a pretty good article, for anyone interested:
Seems like many have great things to say about HLG and have some sound reasoning to back it up, and after rereading my original post I feel like I definitely wasn’t looking at/comparing this light correctly–of course a light with a ~230W power draw is going to cause vegging plants to grow faster than one with 65W draw, probably no matter how much better the technology or efficiency of the 65W (my HLG) is. Having said that, I commented that I wasn’t much more impressed with this light than the Gerylove at half the price, but the brand reputation and high-efficiency Samsung diodes undoubtedly are major mitigating factors.
I tried to do some head to head comparisons between the two, and based on what I found I’m wondering if the two aforementioned variables are really as significant as it would seem they are:
*HLG has a PPFD of 290 μmol/m2/s at 18" with a power draw of 66W; Gerylove’s PPFD is 743 at the same height with a claimed draw of 100W. I don’t believe any of these parameters are logarithmic, so calculating a hypothetical PPAR/W for them results in 4.39 for the former and 7.43 for the latter. I have no idea if this metric is used or would be accurate due to my overall limited knowledge on the topic, but simple reasoning assumes that the Gerylove is superior when considering the numbers alone. Based on the article I linked and other things I’ve read though, and @dbrn32 comment, I understand that there are many variables either controlled differently or left uncontrolled in those tests (and that’s assuming you can even trust that they were done in the first place, as it appears they may be “outright lies” @Myfriendis410). Gerylove is a Chinese company.
I mean, it is a little hard to believe that the efficacy of the half-priced chinese light (claimed 2.7 umol/J) is higher than the reputable HLG at 2.35, and I could do head to head comparisons and so on but I think what really separates these two products is that HLG will most likely honor their warranty, whereas I’ve bought several Chinese-manufactured products that claimed a warranty and then the company dissapeared after a few months. While I don’t intend to continue to purchase lights from irreputable sources, I’m in a tight budget situation where a cheaper light with the same efficacy/PPFD as a reputable brand with Samsung diodes may well be more than worth it if it can just get me through one harvest. I’m hoping this trend won’t continue, but so far that’s kind of been my credo despite being a firm believer in that in most cases, you get what you pay for.
One last comment before moving on: if anyone might be able to better explain what makes the Samsung diodes superior to others such as Gerylove’s “high yielding LED technology diodes” (in terms of vegetative results, not sustainablilty/quality etc.), that would help to further clear some things up for me.
CRI specs seem to be hard to find for most grow lights, at least that’s how I found it to be. Forgive me for not being more informed on the subject, but is there any sort of CRI standard that applies to grow lights, or maybe an assumption that LED diodes have a CRI at or above a certain value? I know the light ‘temperature’ is also a spec of grow lights (4000K, for example), although I do not know if these two are related.
I definitely would have to say though after reading everyone’s feedback that I will likely never purchase another burple light ever again. @MidwestGuy one of my biggest issues with my first indoor grow was uncontrollable heat (as well as humidity), which drove the electric bill through the roof. @Aussie_autos my recently purchased Viparspectra p1500 has been the bees knees thus far, using it for the past two weeks in a 32"x32" flowering tent, and that was what actually prompted me to finally post this. I was really not seeing any reason to choose to go blurple ever again, but then that best reviews article (which I ironically saw a commercial for for the first time last night) made be question myself again. And now I have even more questions! lol. This light uses Samsung LM281b+ diodes, which I would think are an older model than the 301s. Before opening my own can of worms by starting to research the history of Samsung Diodes online, can anyone speak to any major differences between the two? I also find it hard to believe that at 18" the p1500 (with 150W draw) has a PPFD value of 790, a marginally higher value than the Gerylove sp1000 (@Myfriendis410 outright lies???). I wish I had more tools to test these values for myself, but I don’t.
So Viparspectra is also Chinese. But the difference is they actually seem to have built a bit of a reputation for themselves based on things I’ve read. And according to their website, they partnered with Samsung in 2020 @Docnraq – this is not to argue either but it’s worth noting that the latest XS series from them (came out in 2021) uses LM301B diodes, according to their website (as well as Meanwell drivers). So I’m much more inclined to believe in the three year warranty they offer. All of this does beg the question though as to why Viparspectra (and also HLG) aren’t listed on Samsung’s website as official partners…? As of now I’m not sure how much stock I would take in that list–while I can’t speak to their grow lights, every single thing I’ve ever bought from Vivosun was a total POS, from grow tent to pH meter to hygrometer. Maybe I’ve just had some bad experiences, but I have no idea how they became so well known with such crappy products.
@dbrn32 you definitely had the most in-depth analysis, and to be honest some of it might be a little beyond the scope of what I can afford the time to research right now, but you pointed out a lot of things that one may not think of which could also factor in–one of them being the amount of diodes. And while I know it isn’t apples to apples, that was another thing that turned me off a bit about the HLG 65 V2 vs the Gerylove, 120 vs 234 diodes…
I think a lot of this will take time for me to see for myself based on experimentation and informed opionions. Purchasing electronics can be pretty confusing these days in the throw away, overseas manufactured economy we have but it’s always hard for me to seriously justify paying 2-3x as much for something based solely on the fact that it was manufactured domestically (of course not the only factor though). But when it comes to purchasing something that is meant to be long-lasting and sustainable this argument becomes much more crucial. @Upwithhopehydro you mention Black Dog, which is a company I’ve browsed before but was way out of my price point. My man Mr. Canucks on YouTube shouts out his sponsor The Green Sunshine Company, also too pricy for me right now. I believe both of these companies are California-based, which I’m sure hikes up the dollars a bit, but I’ll lastly note that Bestva (the company who manufactured my first burple) claims to have headquarters in California but has Chinese ownership, yet they have some pretty sweet looking new lights too, with LM301B diodes and meanwell drivers…
I’M SO CONFUSED!!!
At this point I feel like, yes, buying something from Gerylove or Layond is not a smart decision and I’m better off saving for something more reputable and of higher quailty. But with companies like Viparspectra and Bestva establishing reputations for themselves and also using top of the line drivers and diodes at a much lower price point, what’s the argument to go with Black Dog or even Mars Hydro?
When diodes are manufactured, they go through a series of tests before cutting up the silicon wafer: based on those on-site tests the diodes are graded to different ‘bins’. Top-bin diodes are the most efficient with the highest output per watt of electricity. With a price to match. Other diodes with lesser efficacy are sold at a lower price and it’s those that are typically being used to produce lights with outrageous claims.
TANSTAAFL: There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch (coined by Robert Heinlein). You get what you pay for.
When I ditched the blurples and went to my own (lierally-I built mine), my electric bill went down $60 the first month. And got better results.
I do like the idea of DIY and after this conversation I’m making a note to look into it more once I feel like it’s something I’m ready to take on. I think I have my fingers in a few too many pies currently. Just one last question to clarify the ‘top bin’ diodes: are you saying that these bins are separating diodes of the same model number into different bins, with performance likely being correlated with random manufacturing flaws? Or LM281b+ and 301B/H are examples of different bin labels? (Or both, being labeled based on performance correlated with manufacturing process?)
You also need to consider longevity. Something you will get with quality LED’s compared to lesser quality LED’s. I have three viparspectra lights. Two that have about 7 months of usage on them and another that barely has any hours on it. The one that has barely any hours on it is measurably (and noticeably) brighter.
Now with the hlg’s, I have a couple that have been running for 3 years, a couple that have been running for 2 years and a couple that have a few months on them. There’s no measurable drop off between in the outputs of each light.
They make the top bin diodes with the intent of making every one at the same level of quality, as defined by a number of factors. They test each one and random manufacturing flaws get them graded into different performance bins with different model numbers. Each model / part number will have a minimum standard it meets, with a declining cost for each model if you’re a QB manufacturer. It’s the same thing with PC processors. Intel doesn’t purposely make I3’s or I5’s. They make all I9’s and test / sort. The duds go in the I3 bin, the one with less problems in the I5, the mostly fine in the I7, and the ones with no flaws in the I9.
So you can use and advertise Samsung diodes, but it doesn’t mean you’re using the top of the line ones. You can also just advertise Samsung and use fakes. How the heck are you - Joe User - going to be able to tell the difference? By getting the jewelers loupe out and looking? Nonsense. The fakes are going to be labeled Samsung just like the real deal. Buy from Chinese suppliers at your own risk. There may be upstanding companies that will give you what you pay for, but the majority are liars and crooks, and you don’t have the wherewithal to know which is which.
Explanation of this is pretty simple to me. You’re comparing a light that draws about 40% more power. From there, I’m not sure why anyone would compare one light to another in a single point ppfd measurement at given height. Depending on shape, size, design, and power of light what your ppfd measurement at one place is doesn’t really have an relevance. I could put a 50 watt cob with reflector against biggest baddest light out there at 12", the measurement directly underneath it doesn’t say anything about how well it will light your grow space.
If you know, you know lol. If I have cct and spectral distribution graph I can pretty much tell you what cri rating is. Hlg uses 80cri in most of their lights. But their flagship models all have 660nm, which makes cri of chips they’re using pretty irrelevant. Without 660nm leds, a 90cri warm white would shift longer wavelength peak more into red.
Lm281b and lm301b are two different leds. If you were to go lm301b data sheet you can see Voltage and flux bins for this chip. Is not to say you will 100% understand what is in there, but information is available.
Well, I’m much less confused now thanks to everyone’s input and taking the time to learn a little more on my own as well. Looking at the diodes in question on Samsung’s website shows that the 301H’s are the way to go but also clears up the CRI and bin separation questions I’d had, at least for the most part. If I’m understanding correctly, it seems that buying from an official Samsung partner who uses top bin 301H diodes will mean a better-performing light that is likely to outlast an inferior and most likely overseas company (Viparspectra probably falls in this category) advertising a light with the same diodes. Am I on the right track?
I’m confused those look nice. What’s wrong with that. Looks to be penetrating canopy I can see purple all the way to pot. How far along are they in flower. The ones above were between 8 / 9 weeks think they ran little over 12. Seemed like 10 years. The waiting omg the waiting. @The_Cannabowlist
