Bubbling pure O2 in RDWC with a Medical oxygen machine


#21

Coming from a military family, we always have you guys in our thoughts and prayers. Especially this time year!

I agree with @TDubWilly on the temps, and another thing I didn’t see mention of was using enzymes in expectation of breaking down root matter. If you’re expecting this to happen in an effort to help feed bennies and plants for that matter, wouldn’t higher o2 levels be counter productive?

I’m not a hydro grower, but I have friends that are and have monitored their systems in thought of changing. Their simple air stones seem to do just fine at maintaining healthy plants. Granted, they have been at it for a while and have other aspects of their grow in order as well. My biggest thought on anything I do is cost vs output. I’m just guessing, but power cost of running one of these is probably somewhat high? If it’s actually compressing air, that’s the least efficient of any type of energy. And that’s assuming you didn’t have to pay for the machine as well.

More or less, what would you expect the results in grams per kwh be? Vs in an identical setup using only air stones?


#22

I will look at the machine and see what it says about power consumption… what I can tell you is that when it’s running it creates alot of heat… so I would assume that means it uses alot of electricity to run… :wink:
I’ll get back with more info… :wink:

:v: :sunglasses:


#23

Thanks!

I probably look at this more than most, because I’ve always been limited on space. Since I don’t sell any of my weed, what I’ve always been concerned with is getting most per area with as little power consumption as possible.

It usually means spending more up front on stuff like lighting and fans, which I’m fine with as long as I can see long term savings. It seems most are more concerned with initial investment and don’t look as deep.


#24

“What do you want to achieve?”

A great place to begin, next comes the question, “is it really possible to achieve what you want?” And finally, “how in the world do you achieve what you want?”
Plants, roots and beneficial microbes – the synergistic dual aerobic eco-systems contained within DWC, RDWC life support systems.

Keeping all the aerobes alive and especially healthy in a hydroponic life support system is always the total responsibility of the “Boss-Man” of The Grow. I believe the point of this medical oxygen machine is about a cheap source of providing 95% oxygen continuously 24/7, the most vital elemental in any DWC, RDWC life support system. For hobby growing requirements, it makes little difference of the Brand of the machine or the patients family selling the machine. On the other hand. a commercial farm has O2 delivery requirements and specific machine specifications.

Where the gaseous element O2 comes from, the type of equipment that delivers the oxygen gas (O2 tank or electric machine that produces the gas), the brand of the equipment producing or delivering the elemental gas nor the people that sell this gas or sell equipment that make this gas is the issue here… the gas is the big deal so say the real horticulture experts that teach and publish the white papers in the scientific horticulture journals.

Without a constant supply of enough O2 gas within a range of safe concentrations, safe volume and continuous minute by minute supply, aerobes suffocate and all the home brews, nutrients, fungicides, chemicals and even serious praying for root recovery will not reverse roots that have suffocated because the damage is done, Period.

The professional hydroponic horticulturist growing plants for a living claim that root suffocation is the # 1 killer of roots in all hydroponic growing systems, then the fungi eat the stinking, decaying root mess in the tub.

When the hobby grower fails and cannabis roots die and decay, then the “race for the cure” is on and we try all sorts of concoctions always hoping to kill what we perceive and our enemy that caused the roots to die. Our mission in life is to kill the Pythium and all its fungal cousins that are colonizing and thriving on our rotting roots and decaying Benny microbes that all suffocated in our DWC, RDWC life support systems. Hobby growers often blame pathogenic fungi for killing their cannabis roots in DWC’s when that is far from the truth as to what really happened that killed all those roots.

So, how does root suffocation happen and happen so quickly? Disrupt or cut off the O2 supply and see how quick distress and death comes. A good example the everyone understands, when the O2 is intentionally cut off on a ventilator on a terminally ill or injured child in an Intensive Care Unit that’s on life support, how quickly the skin turns dark blue and heart quivers and then flat-lines and it’s over.
Suffocation is a common method of terminating life in ICU in all hospitals for patients on breathing life support systems. For all aerobes you can bet your last 2-bits that O2 gas is absolutely the most vital element required for health and survival and count on winning that bet before you throw your money on the table. Actually, all hydroponic systems are also functional life support systems, all the aerobes (Plant and microbial) are totally dependent on the grower’s knowledge, ability and choice of equipment to provide and insure all life sustaining nutrients are constantly available in safe concentrations required to keep the all the aerobic organisms healthy and alive for months.

Fodder for fun - If you used a medical O2 machine that delivers near 95% O2 bubbling into the water @ 5 LPM, wonder just how much that 95% O2 would increase the DO concentration and DO Saturation in water regardless of the water temperature? The point being to use the O2 machine (95% O2) to increase the DO compared to using a high volume air compressor pumping air (21% Oxygen / 79% Nitrogen) through the same bubbler and basically increasing the dissolved nitrogen in the water to extremely high concentrations? Supersaturating the water with nitrogen gas high enough to cause gas bubble (the bends) disease in fish.
Discussions like this are just fodder to play with because no one has nor uses a DO meter to actually test or verify what the real DO would be using 5 LPM of 95% O2 nor compare the test results to air pumped with an air compressor. All most growers have seen the internet DO Charts, a simple DO prediction that is based on ambient air (21% Oxygen exposure), water temp, salinity and barometric pressure. But, the fodder is different and something to explore when there’s nothing to do. Techy stuff, that’s all.

More fodder just for fun. Try thinking real techy for a moment, think “out of the box” if you will - Fast forward from the internet DO Chart prediction with ambient air as source gas in a clean reservoir containing NO plants, No roots and totally void of all aerobic microbes — to a real time grow DO using 95% oxygen source gas using a medical O2 machine … What do you think (a wild guess is good if you don’t have a clue) the actual tested DO difference would be in reservoir water containing 15 lbs. of cannabis roots, 40 lbs. of vegetation and 4lbs. of Benny’s or 1/2 gallon of microbes in reservoir water @ 70F, 75F, 80F and 87F water with dissolved ambient air and dissolving 95% O2 really be and root suffocation and aftermath would be totally prevented and never give that low O2 problem another thought or worry?

Of course all of this fodder is meaningless and a total waste of time even looking at if you are a dirt farmer or a DWC, RDWC cannabis grower that never has any problems or even concerns with root suffocation, root rot or Pythium fungal outbreaks.

Finally - “What do you want to achieve?” The root cause of all this stress, aggravation and problems are caused by low oxygen concentrations in reservoir water and preventable and not necessary – some DWC, RDWC cannabis growers do have real problems, issues and do experience high stress worrying about those low oxygen problems, root suffocation, root rot and the predictable Pythium fungal outbreaks that come last.

If more plants and microbes need more O2 gas to be healthy, then why not simply give then more O2 with a machine that generates O2 which is exactly what doctors are doing when they prescribe these O2 machines for patients that are suffering / dying from low O2.

Now we are back to those medical O2 machines that deliver 95% oxygen gas, the magic gas, not ambient air like an electric fan, or an air compressor pumping tons of air through bubblers making trillions of mostly Nitrogen gas bubbles.


#25

Ok… I will hook up a oxygen machine to my rdwc veg , over flow system’s under cfl lighting… :wink:
Here’s how they were without the extra oxygen… :wink:


I’ll put some new clones in this system with strictly oxygen pumped air stones… :wink:
We see what happens… :wink:
:v: :sunglasses:


#26

Hey fuzz, that project sounds interesting. What brand and Mdl. Oxygen machine are you using and how many lpm O2 are you delivering to your grow through the O2 flowmeter to your bubblers… (1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5 lpm O2… more O2)?

If you ever want to actually see if you are really winning or losing you can always test your real- time DO on the cheap ($0.50 per DO test). Test the DO in each container because 1 container may get twice as much O2 at another container depending on the length of the O2 tubes and the height of the water column in each container. Some containers may not have any oxygen bubbling too. Get yourself a good stone specific for use with supplemental oxygen administration. You cannot blow through a stone made for supplemental oxygen gas because the pores are very tiny as are the bubbles these oxygen bubblers produce.

You can blow through air stone/bubblers easily, air bubblers make huge, giant gas bubbles that are very inefficient and waste gas.

Contrary to popular belief and many forum gurus, you really don’t need a $300.00 DO meter to accurately test your reservoir water DO’s. This works fine and is cheap - *Salifert Dissolved Oxygen Test Kit – $22.31 + FREE SHIPPING –

Aerobes (pot roots and Benny microbes) require a continuous supply of O2. The main thing is to run the oxygen gas through your bubblers 24/7 continuously because aerobes need O2 continuously, minute by minute, day after day. Fifteen to 30 minutes of supplemental oxygen administered 2-3 times daily is totally meaningless and genders false hope and disappointments.

The New Year is finally here, many of you will have a Great 2018, some won’t and children will still be hungry in most of the world, have big bellies and thin arms and legs, flies in their eyes in many parts of Africa, Mogadishu and North Korea. America is a great place to live in 2018 and getting better every day.

If you are employed and you pay taxes, well, Trump says “be happy” count on getting a great tax break and you will have extra spending money in your pockets in this year, 2018. But, if you don’t work, are not employed or paying no taxes, on those Federal and State government teats, you are not going to benefit from the new 2018 tax regulations and you are not getting jack-back, not a dime. That’s that “tough-love” stuff that can taste real bad.


#27

I will get back to you on make and model… still have to set everything up… I have 2 identical systems , so 1 will get the oxygen machine and the other will get the air pump… both will get same nutrients and clones from same plants… we shall see what happens… :wink:
:v: :sunglasses:


#28

Good stuff @peachfuzz thank you


#29

Hey fuzz, what brand and Mdl. Oxygen machine are you using and how many lpm O2 are you delivering to your grow through the O2 flowmeter to your bubblers… (1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5 lpm O2… more O2)?

Oxygen gas diffusers are very different that air bubblers. These specialized diffusers are designed to provide “Efficient” Delivery of Oxygen and Ozone for any eco-system that requires enriched oxygen environments {i.e.- bacteria growth}. These specialized diffusers are not for bubbling ambient air delivered by an air compressor.

“Ozone and Pure Oxygen Diffusers”- {twin pack}-manufactured by Bubblemac Industries, Inc. makers of “The Forever Bubble Stone” - 100% Glass-Bonded Silica Air Diffusers ($13.99 for 2 pac)

You might consider looking into these inexpensive pure oxygen diffusers.


#30

I haven’t started the experiment yet , still waiting on some things to come in the mail , but i will definitely keep you guys posted when I start the project… :wink:

:v: :sunglasses:


#31

@peachfuzz I’ve set this to watching. (I was mostly lurking before. Lol)


#32

Surely you have looked at that O2 machine by now… do you have any idea what the brand and Mdl # of that oxygen generator are you using and *** how many lpm O2 are you delivering to you grow through the O2 flowmeter to your bubblers… (1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5 lpm O2… more O2) or no?

Are you really sure you have an O2 generator and not an air generator/air pump? It’s hard to tell sometimes what it is.


#33

Respironics by ever flo…120v-60 hz by 3.4 amps…
Max o is 96%
Lpm o2 … 0 to 5 %

I haven’t got it up and running just yet… but when I do I will run the max amount of o2 that I can…
It don’t tell me how many watts it uses… so I’m curious just how much it will cost me to run?

:v: :sunglasses:


#34

Thanks fuz- That’s a very good generator you have and durable too. The average power consumption for that particular 5 lpm O2 generator you have described is 350 W.

Your electrical cost will be a little less than a running a 54” plasma TV… you have yourself a very inexpensive source of supplemental highly concentrated oxygen. You will not need a water chiller nor cold water and hypothermia to achieve a continuous 100% DO Saturation running that O2 generator @ 2-5 lpm O2… if trying to maintaining 100% DO saturation continuously was the primary focus for buying and using a water chiller.

The O2 generator will render the water chiller obsolete from the DO point of view. Room temperature reservoir water will easily maintain 100% DO sat with the additional oxygen coming out of the O2 generator.

That is not room air coming out of the O2 generator like hot air coming out of a standard air pump.


#35

@Niala cameup with some info. I believe it was something like 8.7mg/L - 9.8 mg/L of dissolved oxygen should be more than sufficient to keep plants happy, but like I said above, if you don’t hold the right water temps also you can run into trouble.

I was reading one of his essays, what’s worse than warm water not holding onto oxygen is the fact that over oxygenated warm water will help algae and pythium to survive. Algae likes the oxygen just as much as the plant does and if your water temperatures are warm and oxygenated, algae can thrive like no other, especially if it gets a foot hold in your reservoir, something to consider when your pumping a ton of oxygen into water that’s 78 degrees.


#36

Here’s a table for 100% DO (at saturation) @TDubWilly

IMG_20180116_112240

And here’s the graph that you refer to

IMG_20180114_224108

However, maintain 100% of DO with macro or micro bubbles is very difficult…

A O2grow electrolising nanobubble generetor like your’s is more likely to be able to achieved it , less surface on the bubbles that allow more tension surface interaction between bubbles… :wink:

And, of course, temps is critical to achieved at saturation or super dissolved oxygen level (over saturation)… And if not kept at ideal temps like the graph pointed out, you give invitation to algae and mold…:wink:

Hope that’s helping you and the others, buddy and that’s simple enough to be understanding :grinning: :wink: :innocent:

~Al :v: :innocent:

Thanks for the tag and mention my Bergman’s lab reply :wink::+1::grinning:


#37

Ya @Niala He’s using in o2 machine, like a breathing machine which should send DO through the roof but was not going to worry about his water temps at all which I thought would be a breeding ground for algae if temps and oxygen were both real high


#38

Lol, I re-read, you put it in there already…


#39

@TDubWilly @peachfuzz @JH231 @dbrn32 @MaxHeadRoom

This machine is, fuzz one, basicly and escientially, a compressor of O2 that allow a bigger concentration of O2 and need pure O2 bottle to work properly. These are not O2 generator, they are compressor, concentrator.

From the link provide :

Until now, oxygen concentrators have been very similar - heavy, bulky, noisy, or requiring frequent maintenance. EverFlo from Respironics is a unique stationary concentrator that delivers what homecare providers want and patients deserve.

Plus, it will generate only macro bubbles that will loose rapidly it’s concentration of O2 when inject in water or if it’s passing through a pump and air stone micro bubbles generator.

If he can achieve to connect and seal completly without any air lost or uptake to only the air stones without the need of a pump, it may be able to reach a stable 100 % of DO saturation…

The one of JH231 is interesting, but have to follow the same parameters.

And here’s the “vulgarize” scientific fact thinking behind this :

Water surface have a tension, that’s why a rock throw at a certain angle will bounce. Or, when you see big water bubbling on the surface of the water on a competition of diving to lower the impact and splash of the divers entry.

Nano-bubbles do not break this surface tension as much as macro or micro bubbles.

That’s the main reason why nano-bubbles are more efficient to keep a stable at saturation and even over saturation level of DO (dissolved oxygen)

~Al :v: :innocent:


#40

120 volts x 3.4 amps is 408 watts. I’m not really sure how they’re built, but I’m assuming that number is max. It may use less if not loaded all the way.

How does that stack up in comparison to your required air pumps this will be replacing? If you’re talking a slight increase in power consumption for a large gain in yield or quality, it could be pretty valuable.

I think from a standpoint of trying something you have to keep an open mind and give it a fair run. It appears that the $25 20 watt air pump I have would be enough to run a couple of buckets, but I’m not sure as I’ve never tried. I just use it for my nutes. With that being said, I would think the gains would have to be pretty substantial to justify the cost and power consumption. Not trying to deter you from giving it a shot at all, but the average person may benefit more from putting the money and energy into other spots within their grow.

Curious to see how it works out regardless of the power consumption.